Forum - View topicMadoka: Otaku.
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amagee
 Posts: 333 Location: Orlando, FL |
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I think that was everything that had come up. This'll keep us from being "those guys" on that other thread any longer. Discuss away more as ye please. |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Nothing much to discuss. It's a late night anime targeted at a specific group of people just as RyanSaotome said. Doesn't mean it can't have a wider appeal IF people are okay with the elements of the genre (and the medium) and the show doesn't rely on in-culture themes and references too much. Your problem is simply with how the word "otaku" is applied and what it entails.
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TitanManTheMan
Posts: 15 |
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Anyone who doesnt think Madoka is otaku anime doesnt know what otaku anime actually is
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CKSqua
Posts: 38 |
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That doesn't change the genre and intended audience though. Unless you exclusively watch children's and mainstream shows (mostly teen-oriented stuff like Bakuman, Nura, NANA, One Piece, etc.), the vast majority of what you see is otaku anime, whether it's fan service fluff or a serious attempt at storytelling. In short, you're stereotyping a subset of anime that's actually broader than you make it out to be. Similarly, Ghibli anime is made for children, yet the deeper themes can be of interest to their parents and other adults. |
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Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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First off, I think that many people are too quick to disregard an entire genera as 'crap' or 'similar'. The Magical Girl genera is far more diverse than you think.
For instance, if you are looking for ‘dark’, ‘different’, ‘mature’ and ‘complex’ Magical Girl shows, there are already a ton of them out there such as Revolutionary Girl Utena, Princess Tutu, Cutie Honey, Panty & Stocking, Mai-Hime, so on and so forth. Yes, believe it or not, these shows are all within the genera of ‘Magical Girls’ in one way or another. Not to mention, even if one considers Magical Girl shows as 'otaku pandering', there's really nothing to stop the mainstream audience from liking them or to stop them from being good. Besides, what does the term 'otaku pandering' actually mean and why can't such shows be popular or good as well? |
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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99% anime of are otaku anime . what are you talking about? just because you like different type of show, it doesn't mean, those shows are not otaku shows. |
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amagee
Posts: 333 Location: Orlando, FL |
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I'll be first to admit that I haven't seen the gambit of what I'd imagine the magical girl genre has to offer. I can only base my enjoyment and thought processes behind what I've seen of the genre.
Having given this more thought during a ridiculous afternoon of Christmas shopping and cooking, I think the difficulty of getting my thoughts across probably comes down to the fact that every anime can be considered "otaku" in that it targets a particular audience (by the definition put forward in this and other stuff I've read through the forums, not even Ghibli films are safe). I really should of thought longer before replying in the first place. 
When it comes to a show alone, however, things that may be initially focused on a particular audience but have a wider appeal in the long run for whatever particular reasons that might be, in my opinion, are given the opportunity to stand alone as artistic media. For example, Ponyo was targeted at children but generally received positive reviews from everybody I know and I'd imagine reviewers (rottentomatoes.com refused to run for me). This makes it rise above being kids "otaku" stuff as I see it . Now that's just the movie itself. The extra merchandise - toys, books, etc. - that came along with it targeting artistic types or children makes the overall franchise more "otaku" oriented. I think the same sort of analysis can be applied to art in general beyond anime where certain items, for example, have initial life as religious art but are considered excellent pieces of art independent to their original connotation or even the initial intended purpose. You'd never deny, if asked, however, that said items of religious art are still religious art but they are treated as much more. So having given this more thought, while I can't dismiss the targeted nature of something like Madoka, I feel the show itself is good enough that I don't see it as basic, fan pandering escapade. The franchise as a whole is a completely different ball game (someone mentioned figures and doujin as an example). |
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amagee
Posts: 333 Location: Orlando, FL |
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Yeah. The thing is, I bet I could list every anime I've ever seen and label it within some particular (or multiple) otaku labels. |
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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some anime movies are not target otaku, but 99% of do.
most of the TV series are target just certain audience. Now, they even have shows like K-on for female. Instead of target male otaku, they target the female otaku. |
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naninanino
 Posts: 680 |
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It's most definitely aimed at the otaku audience. The style is bona-fide otaku bait and the story comes from a guy who makes VNs for such people. It's only not that for people who are prejudiced towards their own interests. Or to people who think they need to justify their love for an anime with little girls with all sorts of pseudo-reasoning.
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Cam0
 Posts: 4888 |
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Any anime could be considered "otaku anime". Everyone has a bit different definition of otaku which is why I don't like when people say that some animes are aimed at otakus. I do, however, believe that otaku anime exists, it's just impossible to draw a clear line between the otaku anime and the other anime.
I can imagine someone less otaku than me enjoying Madoka and I don't even consider myself much of an otaku. I do also believe otaku enjoy Madoka aswell. Maybe these two watch Madoka for different reasons? |
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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In Japan, If you want watch alot of anime, you are an anime otaku. it doesn't matter what type of shows. |
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Actar
Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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Yup, technically speaking, an Otaku would be someone who is obsessed with something that isn't considered mainstream. Anime itself as a hobby is not big or popular enough to be considered mainstream yet, so one could argue that anyone who has a more than average liking for Anime would be considered an Otaku. Then again, there are those who consider adults who watch Anime (commonly perceived as being for kids) an Otaku, so again, depending on your definitions, the definition of an 'Otaku Anime' can change. |
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Melanchthon
 Posts: 550 Location: Northwest from Here |
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Technically speaking, otaku is a term for anime fans. So all anime would be aimed at otaku. What was probably meant was that Madoka was an 'Type B' otaku anime. While 'type B' otaku loved the show, this is not a correct statement, as shown by the wide audience of non- Type B's that like it, myself included. Madoka is the first great hit of what I call the post-moe era, a non-moe show that sells like a moe one.
The magical girl genre, however, is almost exclusively targeted at Type B's, and let's face it, lolicons. I watch something like Nanoha for it's good storytelling, but Nanoha is popular because of the third-grade titties (My favorite is Strikers, because I liked seeing Nanoha and Fate as adults, but most Type B's hated it because they weren't magical girls anymore). Madoka's take on the magical girl is not particular innovative or visionary, but the execution and direction is what makes it transcend into a great overall anime. And as for "The marketing and merchandise are also all otaku aimed.", that does not a 'otaku' show make. All marketing and merchandise are aimed at Type B's, because they spend the most money in Japan. You'd be stupid to do otherwise. This is why you can find nude Holo figures from the critically acclaimed Spice and Wolf. So in summary: Is Madoka marketed toward Type Bs: Yes Is Madoka merchandise aimed at Type Bs: Yes Is Madoka a Type B anime: No |
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Annf
Posts: 578 |
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Melanchthon's post is overall pretty good but I wanna expand on a couple of things.
Otaku is a term for adults/teenagers who watch anime that we don't normally expect adults to watch. So we don't call kids otaku for watching PreCure, and we don't call adults otaku for watching Mainichi Kaasan, but we do call adults otaku for watching PreCure, or late-night anime (which "nobody" is expected to watch).
At least as of now, by title count, the majority of magical girl shows are daytime children's shows, so we should probably specify "the late-night/OVA magical girl genre" or "the non-children's magical girl genre," which might be called a parody of the actual children's genre.
I think this may be misleading--Type B's into really young girls are a minority niche. Most Type B's are into teenagers. This can be seen from sales figures, including Nanoha's own sales: Strikers sold more than the first two series combined.
People will quibble over what that means exactly since Madoka was obviously engineered with Type B appeal as well, but it's not ultra-Type B-focused anyway. |
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