Forum - View topicNEWS: Code Geass: Lelouch of the Re;surrection Anime's New Promo Video Posted
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Gemnist
Posts: 1758 |
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Goddammit, Shirley’s in this. Not that I don’t like Shirley, it’s just that that proves this is the recap universe. I’m hoping they at least do the multiverse thing they hinted at in the last movie.
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dany_elle1908
 Posts: 50 Location: Romania |
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haven't seen the 3 movies, but heard been changes, guess this is an alternative timeline ;
ahhhhhhh |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Do you want to see an explicit acknowledgment? I don't know if such a thing exists but I think for me it is enough to know that yes, these recap movies (plus the new film) and the TV series are meant to be different universes. That way, it's possible to experience them without a lot of stress or frustration. If I don't like something in the recaps (or this movie), it's probably not there in the TV series. And, logically enough, vice versa. |
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Gemnist
Posts: 1758 |
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They are different universes, given that spoiler[Shirley dies in the anime but lives in the movies]. The ending of the third movie also hinted that they will be exploring a multiverse concept, as spoiler[C.C. says she is traveling through time, and there are cart tracks as she heads down a road just like in the anime, despite the fact she is just riding a mule in the movie]. So basically, C.C. is Homura Akemi.  [/quote]
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RegSuzaku
Posts: 267 Location: Ikebukuro |
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So, the movie is terrible. Completely lacking in any of the emotional core of the series. Completely lacking any emotional core at all. The "lucky" ten or so characters who even get to appear in it are reduced to cardboard husks of themselves.
C.C. is essentially made into a standard dependent light-novel-type character. She has none of the snark and attitude that made her so interesting, but I guess there are more fans nowadays that would rather have her like Inori from Guilty Crown. Suzaku and Kallen are made completely irrelevant (but at least Suzaku is getting merchandise). As for the plot, it's full of things that fanfic writers have considered cliche for years now. The original characters... there's nothing to say, since they have no personality. Chamla has a power where spoiler[if she kills herself, she sets back time... ~6 hours?] This, combined with... whatever that was with Leila in the end of Akito might be what the above poster was talking about, but who even cares, because the movie is that bad. I'd compare it to Black Butler II - the one with Claude and Alois - but at least that can say it was "shocking" or... something... This is just flat. Nunnally gets kidnapped (seemingly because the writers couldn't come up with anything else) and Lelouch barely even seems worked up about it at all. They give all this stuff about "oohhhh well he understands she's grown up now -" no. They just couldn't figure out how to actually write an emotional scene. Pretty much everyone just nods "okay" and goes along with an incredibly basic plot. Nunnally's given up the throne, and Ohgi resigned as Prime Minister... seemingly just because the writers didn't want to be bothered writing the complexities that come with characters being heads of states. But then, Gino and a few other characters (in Black Knights uniforms) get all angry at the politicians of world's nations (old people in suits with plain brown hair) because they won't dispatch all the military in the world to rescue Nunnally-the-Ordinary-Citizen. Kallen fans should be angry, C.C. fans should feel betrayed, Suzaku fans should either feel betrayed or drown their sorrows in merchandise, but Shirley fans should really feel betrayed, because there was no point in bringing her back at all. She has literally one line in this movie, and then in the end there's something that... honestly makes no sense, but can only be read as a mean joke played against her, in a place that's supposed to be reserved for all the most heartwarming, peaceful, everyone-getting-along parts. As if this movie didn't stomp on the series' grave hard enough. It's true that she shouldn't have died, that it's a sexist trope to kill the hero's girlfriend in order to make him react, but in the recap movies, he still does all the same things as if she'd died - killing all those scientists - which is so out of character when he's not reacting to something that traumatic (and other characters, namely Suzaku and Nina, also still do things they wouldn't have done if not for Shirley's death). Miracle Birthday and its league of moe empresses has been... abanonded, I guess? Also, it's credited to the series' original writer (Okouchi), but he's made some comments that give an air like he had very little to do with it, and we know that his writing as of recent does not have these problems, because he wrote Princess Principal. And they said before the 3rd recap movie that this should be regarded as a separate canon from the series, and that if you don't like it, feel free to ignore it and enjoy the series. So. Resurrection and Oz the Reflection can just enjoy their little corner. Let's not let them disgrace the original series too badly... let Miracle Birthday be the ending. (If you haven't seen that, google it, it's wonderful). (Oldrin appears breifly in the movie, by the way.) (Also, another canon error with the recap movies. Layla la Britannia - not Leila Breisgau, a different Layla, Clovis' sister who is the protagonist of an obscure video game where she escapes from the facility Rolo was trained in and has to piece together her identity, and the fact that she was a Britannian princess and she was in there adds to the "Rolo is Nunnally's twin" theory - anyway, Layla is shown with Clovis in a flashback to when Lelouch and Nunnally were banished, in the first recap movie. Not only would she not have been there, but... Lelouch and Nunnally didn't get to say goodbye to their siblings before they left. That... would sort of change a lot, going by the backstory drama CD "The Imperial Siblings". ... for series-canon, the drama CDs are really important for character development, and Bandai dubbed them, and they're really good, please look them up.) Okay, I'm done. tl;dr - Don't. Don't see it. Spare yourself. |
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JohnRhogan
Posts: 164 |
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Unlike some people, I'm interested to see how Lelouch is brought back to life. I also love Takahiro Kimura's character designs. His women look smokin' HOT!!
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RegSuzaku
Posts: 267 Location: Ikebukuro |
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spoiler[L.L. I wish I were joking.] |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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I've heard far more positive comments from other fans in Japan, but one did tell me that some people are going to really like the movie and others are going to really hate it. That made me look around into Japanese movie rating sites and yes, there seems to be some division. Nonetheless, the positive views are still very much in the lead and the cumulative ratings are fairly high (4 out of 5), so I'll reserve judgement. For me, the existence of this movie has always been a bit of an "extra" or addendum, rather than something strictly necessary. I am going to treat it as such, rather than having unreasonably high expectations. Some of the things you're saying would be worrying, at a glance, but I'll take them with a grain of salt. For example, I think there's really nothing inherently wrong with the type of Geass power you mentioned. If you're looking to find something that has never been done in the history of fiction before, that's almost impossible. For that matter, the way in which Lelouch was revived doesn't seem to be a problem for me either, because there was a theory about it back in the day. In other words, that was always a possibility. There's only so much that can be done in a two hour movie with a cast of this size, so I'll look at the various characters with that in mind and see what I can get out of the scenes they do have. I didn't expect them to do anything with Shirley in particular, because she was basically written out of the main story in the compilation movies, so that wasn't one of my concerns. When it comes to a few other characters you've mentioned, I think reading the context and circumstances is always important. Which I can't do without watching the movie for myself. I am, however, rather curious about one thing you did mention...what exactly did the writer say? Because if it gave you such an impression, I imagine it would be interesting to read that. Last edited by nightjuan on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Soulwarfare
 Posts: 529 |
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Multiverse? wtf?
Still, I am going to watch it cause I really wanna see Lelouch again. I wonder if any of the characters from Akito the Exile are going to be in this but I probably doubt it |
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Gemnist
Posts: 1758 |
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Well... that was... brutal. But anyway, what does it do with the multiverse thing (fair warning: when you respond, put it in spoilers). Also, sorry to burst your bubble, but OZ the Reflection is canon with the main series.
The Akito characters haven’t appeared in anything, so I highly doubt it. I would love it if some of the supporters did, though the way the main characters’ arcs ended it’s fine as is in that regard. As for the multiverse, it’s just a theory thus far, so don’t stress about it too much. |
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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Eh, I believe it's bad when I seen myself. I remember people ranting about the Gundam 00 movie being terrible and I personally found that to be quite good so...
And it's not like Code Geass ever had the greatest writing beforehand. As long as it's more over the top mecha melodrama that knows on some level that it's ridiculous yet is also totally sincere in it's own way roller coaster of fun then the movie shall be a success in my eyes. |
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jroa
Posts: 537 |
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Disclaimer: Haven't seen the Resurrection movie so far yet I have already read many more spoilers and impressions about this movie than the average viewer outside of Japan, so I have adjusted most of my personal anticipation accordingly...and that is why I'd tend to think this comparison is not justified at all. One, in a way C.C. appears to be the person who sets the whole movie into motion (this latest trailer literally has a line about it), so that's already a proactive act that a character like Inori from GC wouldn't have taken. In due time, I suppose there will be enough room to discuss and debate about whether her initial decisions were right or wrong. Two, I think a person can have various sides to their personality. She doesn't need to be snarky every single moment of the movie, especially when the surrounding interpersonal dynamics have changed as a result of larger events. I can only wonder if that's communicated effectively enough, in practice, but it seems rather implicit from reading the summaries and spoilers. Three, there has been something of an awakened hornet's nest regarding the ending of the movie, especially in the eyes of the different shipping factions. Let's just say I can understand the point of view of those who are making the most vocal complaints. I am prepared to see some characterization issues as a result, but I've also read some alternative interpretations that appear to address a few of those topics. To be sure, it's still a bad move to require such efforts on the part of the audience. Either way I am not going to open that Pandora's box here. Just acknowledging its existence.
It's definitely not a story focusing on them as individuals. I can understand that as a source of disappointment. If you ask me, Suzaku and Lelouch did have the most central dynamic in the TV series. That said, for me that change is not equal to irrelevance. Suzaku does seem to get one of the longer reunion scenes with the titular character and is active on the battlefield, so there's room to debate whether counts as relevance here. More should have been done, but that's not nothing. Same with Kallen, albeit to a lesser extent. It seems she initially plays the role of skeptic towards what C.C. wants to do (see the trailer). Not for the whole film, evidently, but it's still something I'd want to consider before saying that someone is irrelevant as a character.
I am not sure about that. Spoilers haven't really addressed them in detail, nor reflected their interests and points of view outside of basic information on their powers or abilities. Partially because the people who have written those impressions were more invested in the familiar cast of characters and, just as well, perhaps they simply didn't find the new cast members to be appealing in the first place. That's fair, but only one option. I have no idea where I'll land on those characters. I want to know more.
Correct me if I am wrong, by all means, but I remember the recap movies differently. Suzaku didn't try to interrogate Kallen in the second recap movie, so that's one consequence of the change. Nina's main motivation was to get revenge against Zero because of Euphy. That wasn't altered in the movies. She was already working on that non-nuclear bomb of hers and continued to do so in both versions of the story. Shirley's fate wasn't a factor, though they did have a scene of mourning back during the TV series. I believe Lelouch was portrayed as slightly more ruthless in the first recap film than in the original series, particularly during one of the new scenes. With that in mind, I don't think it's impossible for him to still attack the Geass organization. That said, he did come across as far less passionate about it because of the lack of the direct emotional motivation provided by Shirley in the TV series storyline.
This is true, but if there's something I've learned over the years...is that people still tend to often overlook a number of details when it comes to the original TV series and such a thing, for better or for worse, is likely to apply to this new film as well. The presence of actual weak points, flaws or omissions in the writing isn't mutually exclusive with that. |
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3983 |
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Yeah, I enjoyed it and how it was very entertaining despite certain events or choices in it annoying me. Also, same here, I quite liked the Gundam 00 movie. Actually the main thing I would have liked (aside from a few characters being underused) would have been a slightly longer epilogue for the cast since it was the finale so I definitely didn't think it was terrible or understand some of the stronger rants about it.
Yeah, really liked the Akito OVA series. |
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RegSuzaku
Posts: 267 Location: Ikebukuro |
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The problem with the movie is that none of the characters have emotional reactions that make sense.
Kallen and Suzaku have one shallow second of emotional reaction to Lelouch being there, and then they just nod "okay" and go back to shooting things with giant robots. (Combat participation is not the same as character depth. Combat participation is not a substitute for character depth). Nunnally did not get enough of an emotional reaction to seeing Lelouch again. And all of that is not even considering that Kallen and Nunnally were not in the position that Suzaku and C.C. were in with him at the end of the series - they saw him as their enemy, and their last words and actions towards him were antagonistic, which they do feel something over even though they know he did that intentionally. (see Miracle Birthday). The movie is emotionally sterile towards essentially all of the characters. The series' strength was that it was anything but that. Its willingness to take the characters to places emotionally that you don't often get to see in stories. No one is purely a hero or a villain. Everyone deals with unintended consequences of their actions. Everyone has complex feelings under the surface, things they want that they can't admit to, or reasons they can't admit to (e.g. Suzaku having killed his father, but that's just the most openly discussed example. There were tons of things like that.) The series wasn't perfect. It had a lot of unnecessary parts. But at its core were characters with real, complex emotions, many of which weren't comfortable, many of which were upsetting to fans. But they were real - more real than the things fans are used to seeing. No one here is going to have a scene where they're bent over, punching the wall of the shower because they don't know what to do. In this movie, everyone we knew before are the heroes, and the new characters are shallow villains. The audience doesn't get a chance to fall in love with them and want them to be happy. The series even gives you enough of Clovis to fall in love with, and he dies in episode 3. Basically, the series was not just like every other anime, and the movie made these characters into something that is just like every other anime. The Lelouch in this movie is just another Kirito. He is not himself. The movie actually, essentially, apologizes for some of the things that made viewers uncomfortable, but that made sense in the story, that viewers should have tried to understand, that viewers could have learned and grown from. But the movie decided that it would rather be a shallow popcorn flick. But if people prefer shallowness in everything else, I shouldn't be surprised that they accept it here. (Another issue with the movie - I'd been thinking about how character death should connect to the plot of a story, and how, not necessarily in a Shirley or Euphie way, but at least in a Rolo way, character death should mean something for the story. The way the character dies should mean something for their role in the story, and it should mean something for their emotional connections and for what they wanted. Part of the way the movie creates faux-peril is that Cecile gets shot and looks like she's going to die. She doesn't, but they use that to create a sense of peril. And it's pointless, because she has no intellectual or emotional connection to the plot. Emotionally, Lloyd and Cecile are observers, and something of a support for Suzaku (though not an adequate one, through no fault of their own). They... aren't the kinds of characters whose deaths would have a point in a story like the series. Basically, the movie was full of cheap shots) edit: I sort of thought about it more and got down to the essence of what I mean about this: This movie took something (the series) that was complex, and nuanced, and unexpected, and unstereotyped - and that made a lot of people uncomfortable for these reasons - and trimmed it down and reshaped it into something shallow, that people find easier to digest. That people don't have to think too deeply about. That doesn't leave room for thought and analysis. I mean. I feel like there's a lot we can say about the world now vs. the world ~12 years ago, before Twitter and Facebook, in terms of how people react to things that aren't clear-cut. I feel like the pendulum is swinging the other way, though, since the world is seeing that you can't have your cake and eat it too as easily as you can in a show like ACCA 13 (another thing that no one had a problem with except for me, but try re-watching that ending this month/ next month and see if it reminds you of anything). I think in 10 years, people will still be recommending the series, and when someone asks about this movie, they'll say, "......ehhh... you can if you want, but... it was made 12 years later, and..." |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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Needless to say, I think each individual audience member should be the judge of that. Like I said before, It's just a two hour movie. I don't think each reaction needs to be particularly long or drawn out. Even a brief moment still counts as representing the feelings of the characters involved. You are calling the movie emotionally sterile, but right now...I think at least the Japanese voice acting alone seems to do a pretty good job of communicating emotions in these trailers. Is that shallow? I believe that would depend on one's own assessment. What I do distinctly recall from the very end of the TV series and various picture dramas was that everyone who was relatively important among the main cast of characters had ended up on more or less the same page: they were happy at the outcome and those who realized the nature of the plan appreciated Lelouch's intentions, even if they had been opposed to him during the prior battle. In fact, I believe some of them had cried during the last episode. I think you have made a fairly viable description of how the TV series operated as a whole and with respect to each individual season. However, it is important to keep the change of format in mind. If this was a full TV season's worth of events, I might be more inclined to agree with you on the question of complexity needing to be maintained at all times. There isn't all that much running time available in this case and the in-universe situation has changed because all these people aren't necessarily on opposing sides now, so it sounds fair to me that there would be a lower degree of tension. Reactions and emotions may well need to be abbreviated or else you can't fit everything within a single movie, which requires a reduction of complexity. There's also something to be said about not repeating the original dramatic arc these characters have already gone through, so any personal questions or doubts they might have are going to be necessarily different than those we saw last time around. Or, just as well, they could be already resolved so these people can move on with life. I think that's a valid creative choice. Sometimes you want to see old characters again without giving each of them a whole new psychological or existential problem to overcome. My expectation is this movie won't be anything special. I wouldn't rush to recommend it, much less blindly, since I think the original story ended perfectly. So I am aware that it won't carry the same impact of the show. And that's fine. I think that for many people it'll just be a fun trip down nostalgia lane. |
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