Forum - View topicHow would you improve english dubs?
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The Overlord
Posts: 88 |
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Except what you don't understand is that matching the dialogue to the lip flaps still affects the performance of the actor, so making that workable is not just the responsibility of the production staff, it will always affect the performance, You could get Robert Downey Jr. to dub anime and his performance would affected by that. Bob Bergan has said as much and I'm pretty sure he knows more about voice acting then either of us. How would you know more about the dubbing process then someone who actually has done this before? Let's look at Bergen's quote on the matter:
That's right from the Horse's mouth. So clearly the production crew can't just magically make the dialogue fit the lip flaps, make sense and sound natural, because that's almost impossible to do at the production level. Its like with live action acting, things besides the actor affect the performance, like the script, the direction, etc. The actor doesn't live in a vaccum, they are affected by other factors. Here's a little experiment, compare the voice acting in any 4Kids dub of anime to the voice acting in the 2003 TMNT cartoon, both use the same voice actors, but one is better voice acted then the other because pre-lay work is easier to do. So there are factors in dubbing you are not taking into account. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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This was concluded hours ago. Hindering creativity is not the same as giving a poor performance. It just means he can't ham it up as much as he likes. He worded his quote very carefully as to not give the horrible conclusion you are offering. Dubbing anime is different and has some restrictions not found in regular VO work. |
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The Overlord
Posts: 88 |
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No but hindering creativity can affect the level of a performance, hence pre-lay work being easier to do and it is something that can, its like been given a free hand vs. having to act with a ton restrictions on yourself. He said dubbing was naturally more difficult noting that a VA dubbing does have to match the sync, as well as read the line and act it out, thus making it harder. How can you focus just on your performance when sync has to be a consideration? I'm not saying you can't get a good performance out of a dub, I'm just saying its way harder to do this compared to other forms of voice acting and thus something that has to be taken into consideration. It just seems like some don't seem to understand this as a factor that can affect a VA's performance. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Easy; it was covered already. Matching sync is not their job and not their focus most of the time. Your focus to magnify the issue leads to making a mountain out of a mole hill. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber
Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Or your unwillingness to reason with the other user has basically resulted in the stagnation of this discussion. Many users counter your point, the professionals who actually do the work have countered your point, and yet you insist and demand that you be right and are responding with little more than "nuh uh, I'm right and you're wrong". If this type of cyclical discussion that goes nowhere is where we're at, then it's time to move on.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18214 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Either your word choice leaves something to be desired here or your focus is off. I was referring to the "VAs sound bored on the commentary track" comment, not whether or not the commentary tracks themselves were boring. (I suppose some might equate the two, but they aren't the same thing.) But getting back to the original point, the one way I could see dubs improving is to broaden the talent pool a little. There were some signs of this happening back in the months leading up to Geneon's collapse (i.e. right around the time that the market started constricting) but I've heard very few fresh voices since then. (And please note that this is a wish for increased variety rather than an admonition on the quality of the current voice acting pool.) |
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Mushi-Man
Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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Ha don't worry he still does plenty of dubs. In the past couple of years he's done Code Geass, Afro Samurai: Resurrection, Gurren Lagann, he does allot of work on the Naruto dub, even that Dante's Inferno anime. Over all he's still out there working in anime. And lets not forget that he tends to do work under an alias during his non-union rolls. I'm not attacking your points or anything, in fact I tend to agree with you. I'm just letting you know that Steven Jay Blum is still around. As for what I think about all of this, I'd have to say I wouldn't change to much about dubs. The English dubs that we find today aren't bad, in fact I would even call them good. The dubing industry has come a long way since the days of Violence Jack. The dubbing process has become much more refined over the years. And the companies are trying all they can to bend over backwards to please, not just the fans, but often the Japanese companies who made the anime. People need to give these dubbing companies a break for once and let them do their job. They're the professionals, we're just people complaining about little, unimportant, mistakes. That said, it's not like I think all dubs are done well. Honestly there are plenty of dubs out there that could use some work. I really didn't like the Lucky Star dub, I thought the voice actors used weren't very good fits for the rolls. Then again the Japanese voices actors in Lucky Star had un-godly high pitched voices so maybe it's impossible to get the right voices for a show like that. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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I have no way of countering that user as it will only lead to pages and pages of someone asking to be convinced but not really wanting to be convinced. The brief interlude with that poster was more about telling him to play catchup with the actual flow of the thread.That user brought up a quote that was covered and concluded later in the thread. There was only one example of a professional VA talking about the some of differences he has experienced with anime dubbing. Since the interview was not actually about anime dubbing it can easily be countered or just discounted because those two questions don't have much detail to them. The people disagreeing with me about ADRs not being able to match mouth flaps to words are wrong, someone else point that out.
Now about some writer duties;
Take from an interview with Brian Hinnant. Note he is not that prolific but this article is actually about anime dubbing. http://animeworld.com/essays/bhinnantinterview.html It doesn't sound as arduous as or extra task heavy for the VA as Bergen or some people in this thread are insisting. Different jobs have different focuses and sometimes there will be overlap.
How about both. Their discussion on the track sounds boring or if you want a more complex synonym, inane. Depending on the amount of people doing the commentary anywhere from 2-5 people. A couple of them usually sound like they are bored. If you want to do a critical review the two are certainly different. I am just offering my review only as a casual viewer, the two are more or less the same from my standpoint. |
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doctordoom85
Posts: 2093 |
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Interesting you mentioned that one. On a website where Japanese fans can comment on English dubs, the dub of Lucky Star was widely praised, and most actually preferred the English version of Tsukasa over the Japanese version, and also saying the English voice for Mikuru was a perfect fit. IIRC, Akira's dub voice (especially the radical difference between her "happy" and "grouchy" moods) was also praised. |
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eyeresist
Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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^ Heh. I trust the opinion of Japanese fanboys about as much as I trust the opinion of American fanboys.
I'd say: more money -> better actors -> profit. Also, is there some online resource where dubs are rated and can be easily compared? I say this because I generally dislike dubs, but I have heard a few good ones (Air Master was a little-known goody, shame it cancelled), and I'd like to know where to find the gold amongst the dross. |
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RHachicho
Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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You know this might be a bit of a sidetrack. But do you think that alot of the coolness we see in subs is because someone always sounds a bit more mysterious and dramatic. When you can't actually tell what they are saying? Not that Japanese isn't a beautiful language .. because it is. But it makes you wonder if perhaps the Japanese see more inherent coolness and/or mystique in the english language than we do. Having trodden it into our brains groove every damn day for all of our lives.
I have lately started really examining the english language that I use and it's actually startling how much it sounds like german when you dissasociate yourself from it. Which I have always thaught of as a very dramatic language. Well anyway enough Sidetrack just thaught I would mention that. |
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catstigereye
Posts: 341 |
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its the emotions in the voice. I can hear it in some not all of the sub's when it's needed. I can not hear it in the dub side of things much of the time no matter how much its called for.
I also think that more voice actor's need to cross lines instead of the way it works now. I have some that are in English and could list a great voice cast for a show but they would come from east and west. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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So it is not just me having a problem hearing emotion in some dubs, what a relief.
English is my native language but some English dub tracks just don't have the emotion the Japanese track has. |
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Olivine
Posts: 197 Location: Sol 3 |
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1. Stop pronouncing Japanese names/words super properly.
The dub actor will be talking normally, but then they go into 'japanese word mode' and talk with robotic precision until they finish the japanese word. It doesn't sound natural at all. 2. Pronounce japanese names/words with an English accent instead. I cringe every time I hear the 'Japanese r' sound being used in an English sentence. That sound doesn't even exist in English. It sounds completely awkward. Its better for them to just pronounce japanese r's the same way English pronounces its r's. Dub's used to be ok in this respect. I remember in the Nadesico dub, there was a character named Ruri, and they always pronounced her name with the english r's. It sounded natural. Now everything is pronounced with the japanese robot accent and it is really irritating. 3. Male dub actors always sound like they are whispering. Why? Why are they always so breathy and whispery? I don't get it. Talk normally! 4. Female dub actors voices are too deep. Shana from Shakugan no Shana is not a 40-year old lady. Yet, thats exactly how Shana's english VA sounds. Get voice actors that have greater range of voice. 5. Add more emotion. Seriously. English dubs are lacking here. Emotional scenes generally just sound melodramatic in the dub. 6. Morgan Freeman. No explanation needed. |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Welll that's because German and English are related languages and share words and grammar structure. English just adopts words from other languages (Otaku for example or Hospital as another) And is different when compared to say the Romantic languages (French, Spanish, Italian ) It just makes me sad when people say the English voice cast can't emote, they are but most are hung up on the Japanese version to notice it. Besides emoting is one aspect of acting and such that really anyone can do it with minimal training and I do so in my other hobbies frequently, however my performance depends on more than just that, it needs to be "real" for lack of a better term, or be believable and to move my players in the direction I want them to, to feel the appropriate response from the situation. I feel that for the most part English dubs accomplish this at about the same rate as the Japanese dubs. |
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