Forum - View topicANNCast - The Life and Kime of Geneon, USA
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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An outlet fitting such a description is something of which we're somewhat envious. Dire circumstances on the high-street have forced most fans here to rely on internet shopping and R1 importation—something we've become quite comfortable with. Such circumstances are not, however, ideal for introducing newcomers to the medium, considering the less-than-legal sources with which local distributors presumably intend to compete. |
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CareyGrant
Posts: 453 |
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Umm, I seriously doubt anyone beyond the series creators got anything from the first episode beyond great confusion. I'd argue your memories are revisionist and more reflective (of the whole series) after having seen the whole series and thus are able to put it into context. I've yet to meet or speak to anyone who's seen the entirety of the series and commented after seeing the first episode that: ...the first episode it let you know exactly what were you were getting: a story that eschewed the whole idea of traditional narrative in favor of one that embraced the idea that everyone has their own story, and that eventually there can be no true beginnings or endings to a story since things continue on and on. Now, on the the rest of my comments. Yeah, I said madness and stumbled out of the gate, and I stand by that. The issues I have with it are those that Justin and Zac enumerated. And if you look at the reviews for the first DVD, the synopsis for the series is information you don't get till at least the second DVD. And with a cast to rival War and Peace in size, over multiple time lines (backwards and forwards through time) and multiple stories which (until well into the series) appear unrelated... yeah, that's a mess. Now, the animation and musical score I thought were very good, as well as the writing (with some very complex characters); full marks for taking a risk. Isaac and Miria, I found to be very funny and enjoyed their scenes. And you are right, this is unlike what's come down the pike lately (a sentiment I shared in my earlier post) and above avg. on all fronts; definitely not the pandering fluff that's mostly being made now. But just like Zac and Justin said (and I agree), there was no reason for the beginning of the series to be like it was -"steep" (in re: to learning curve) and "a f*cking mess" were two things they'd mentioned that immediately come to mind. They were ambitious, but ultimately when I think of others -like Pulp Fiction, which pulls this style off masterfully- Baccano stumbled. Plus, I'm not a big fan of "It gets better later on..." Because until then, there must be something else engaging enough to carry the show through the madness/confusion or while it's busy going nowhere fast. With Baccano, I didn't get that, but I gutted it out to the end. As for story, I couldn't help but be reminded of FMA when I finally understood more about what was going on. Alchemists, Homunculus, themes of humanity, immortality... I just couldn't help drawing the similarities between the two while watching it. In that sense it felt a bit like a retread, despite how FMA and Baccano differ. In all, I think it's a very fine series, and well above avg., but I stand by my statements. |
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Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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Re: Geneon- Ouch! That sounds painful! I was grimmacing as Kime (brilliantly) recited dissapointing sales number after dissapointing sales number. It sounds like the company tried hard, went out of its reach and crumbled.
Re: Baccano!- I never knew how entertaining mindless violence could be until I fell in love with this show. It's a fun ride. And I love the dub; it really adds to the cartoon ganster feel of the characters. Re: Mainstreaming anime- the more the failed attempts to do just this are discussed, the more I lose hope. I never realized that an ad in Nickalodeon magazine would cost $30 thou back then. I can't imagine how much a commercial on that network would cost. I feel like I understand anime companies and the decisions they make much better now. Thanks for the great show! (Next week, get the ADV manga guys over and let's do the same thing for manga!) |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Ask any company that has advertised their products and they will tell you the answer to that. One has to spend money to make money. and if advertising didn't bring in the dosh, why would there be so much of it in virtually every non publicly supported media on this planet? Broadcasters may sniff at your programmes, but they will let you shag their wives for your ads. BTW, I never said it had to be just TV ads Defence rests |
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Malajax
Posts: 7 |
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I enjoying this podcast at work when I had an epiphany. I like anime and Japanese culture. I like history (and learning things in general). I should study Japanese history! I was estatic! I've spent 3 years wondering what the hell I could possibly do with my life and this made the most sense to me. So, thank you ANNcast!
It was truly an excellent show. I really hope each episode following is even more enlightening than the next! |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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I find it darkly amusing that a company, owned by a publishing and advertising powerhouse like Dentsu, couldn't find enough money to advertise in a fan magazine. Nothing like starving your own children just to keep from spending a yen.
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GATSU
Posts: 15313 |
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BTW, Keaton's problem wasn't that it targets older viewers. It suffered due to the following issues: 1) No English manga translation tie-in; 2) Casual fans lacked familiarity with Urasawa in general; 3) The lead's an effing dullard and the show goes all over the place without a sense of purpose; 4) The episode previews lack the motivational hook for you to keep going. Keaton has to be the most introverted anime I've ever seen.
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CruzMissile
Posts: 76 |
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I think someone linked it on another subject on this forum but dvd's for the most part (as unfortunatly proven by this weeks podcast) don't make that much money. On the other hand, anime merchandising makes a crap load of money. I'm guessing merchandising rights aren't included in the dvd deal or if they are only in limited amounts? Or do the anime companies then sub license the merch rights to hasbro or whomever? Or are we all buying figures from retailers that have to massively import all the figures from Japan?
I'm mean lets face it, a show like yugioh is really a 25 min infomercial for the card game. ... I hope someone can make sense of what I'm trying to get at... trying to make a sound logical argument at 5am isn't one of my strong points. I will say though that was a very informative show, although I'm curious to see how shows like Last Exile and Black Lagoon did... |
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Actually, Geneon was one of the biggest spenders in North American print ads out of any US distro, if not THE biggest. Their closing REALLY hurt most of the magazines. Not to argue that advertising is important, but the "anime demographic," that is, tech-savvy teens and young adults, is causing advertisers to wring their hands. They don't read much print media, don't watch nearly as much TV generations past. And of course, they don't all visit the same websites (except for Facebook, where ads tend to get ignored altogether). Since the audience is so fractured, marketing broadly is waaaay harder and more expensive than it used to be. This is actually one of the biggest challenges in entertainment at the moment. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Posts: 23781 |
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Just finished listening to the podcast now. Totally fascinating and utterly depressing. It also underscores the complete futility of trying to second guess licensing and distributing decisions unless you have the behind the scenes info. That podcast should be compulsory listening for anybody who wants to comment on any licensing/distributing Talkback thread at ANN. On top of the usual screw-ups that can go with any industry, you have the Japanese rights holders - non-Japanese distribs dynamic which just adds the potential for a whole new layer of irrationality.
My new attitude towards DVD releases? If a title that I like comes out dubbed, I will treat it as the minor miracle it is and if it is sub-only, I'll be thankful for what I can get. |
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Sailor S
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Hands down my favorite show yet. I thought the Chris Johnston show was great, but this one just blew everything else away. It was really refreshing after getting so much runaround at every convention by industry people to finally get someone who can actually say what went on behind the scenes. It really was a sad time for me when Geneon folded because such a large part of my collection at the time was by them. And at the time I suppose my collection was around 900, maybe 1000 DVDs, so that was no small amount. I really did like hearing some actual sales figures and how certain properties did. Some did about what I expected, others I was a bit surprised at how well, and in some cases how poorly they did.
Well, I sure hope you can manage to have some more podcasts of this caliber. That's a big task, I know, but I'll remain hopeful. |
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qollocust
Posts: 182 Location: Philadelphia |
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Actually all of these shows have a major thing in common: merchandising! These are the shows that had (and still have) a lot of merchandise to support them. Also the merchandise they have tends to appeal to a wide range of fans. They have cheaply made dolls and figurines for the kids they enjoy the shows, but they also have t-shirts, wallscrolls, nicer models, etc for older fans. The fact they they can appeal to a wide age range only helped them more. Also fans are going to keep buying stuff from these franchises out of shear nostalgia (I know I do with Pokemon). Shows like Cowboy Bebop (which did really well) don't have as many options when it comes to merchandise. Their fanbases are going to be almost exclusively older fans. Sure they'll buy t-shirts and wallscrolls, but seriously, what kind of toys can you make based on Bebop that will sell really well? Back to the topics discussed in the podcast - I never really understood why Card Captor Sakura was released in such an odd way and now I do! I was one of the many fans who were buying the sub-only releases (on VHS!) but stopped when the release order got messed up. I didn't really consciously stop buying the series, but I remember when the volume that was released out of order (was 4 or 5? I don't remember) came out, I was frustrated and decided to wait until the previous volume came out so I could watch the show in order. Well I waited longer than expected and started collecting something else. By the time the CCS volumes I was waiting for were out, I had moved on. I still want to see the rest of the series though. CCS was sort of doomed from the start though with the whole Cardcaptors thing. Seriously, who thought that was a good idea? |
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wandering-dreamer
Posts: 1733 |
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Weighing in on Baccano, the first episode makes a heck of a lot more sense if you watch it again after you watch the first 13 episodes. Seriously, you pretty much need to do it. And I was another person who heard the hype, was a bit hesitant, and it took a few episodes to really get me going on it. I really liked it and am saving up for that box set.
Also, Baccano isn't based on just one light novel. It's based on three with big chunks from another two in the series as well and, based off the first novel which is the only complete fan translation I believe, it jumped around a lot in the story as well. And that little girl y'all seem to hate so much (I actually liked her) was not in the original volume, the story is instead being told to this Japanese tourist who is retrieving his stolen camera in NYC (and apparently is a minor character or lives next to a character in Dhurarara but don't quote me on that). |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Zac, I must tell you that upon hearing your voice, you have a twin, albeit with a British accent, that sounds just like you right down to your infectious laugh, and I work with him sometimes. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Correct, how many people claimed that fanservice titles was what did the american anime industry in? I mean Toonzone did an entire article basically claiming that fanservice doesn't sell. Then this podcast cames out proving them and a lot of people flat out wrong. Ikkitousen made money, and the bombs came from all over the area. I mean who would have guess that Heat Guy J cost as much as Fullmetal Alchemist while doing crap? |
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