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Colonel Wolfe
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 370
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:46 pm
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JD, it's not that anyone is getting upset over this. It's the fact that the ANN made a grievous error in its article stating that Bleach Volume 27 has remained at the Top #1 spot for more than 11 months.
Since Bleach Volume 27 just came out last month, I'd like to know how ANN came to believe that Bleach Volume 27 has beaten Watchmen as a #1 graphic novel.
First, Watchmen isn't a graphic novel, it's a trade paperback collecting the original 12 issue maxi series originally published by D.C. Comics.
Secondly, Bleach is merely a reprinted manga series that has been translated from the original tankouban series. Manga is not graphic novel.
Finally, unless ANN has a time machine and can see into the future, there has never been one single release of a manga volume that has spent more than a month or two in the top #1 spot. No manga has ever done that, not even Akira.
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bahamut623
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1463
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:50 pm
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@Colonel Wolffe: I still think you're just misreading the article. When they mention the 11 month run, they're just saying that Watchmen's run of 11 months has ended, not that's it's been surpassed by another graphic novel being there for longer.
Adacus wrote: |
Anyway Bleach is not a bad manga, its that it has no life, no soul, nothing really.
Yeah its all comics in the end, doesn't mean we can't discuss and critique the quality of said product. This forum is free to discuss opinions or debate, it really does no harm. Just discussion.
Of course people saying Bleach is a mediocre, and doesn't deserve to beat Watchmen is really subjective. But Bleach is a fun manga, with style, a manga doesn't have to complex, smart to be quality, the same goes for comics as well.
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It's not so much an issue with anything being said about Bleach (you can feel however you want about it, and I can feel however I want about it), it's just the ridiculous attitude over it beating Watchmen. Zanarkand Princess said pretty much what I feel. Don't act like it's unworthy of being read or the absolute scum of the manga world because it isn't as good as Watchmen. There's an audience for it and people who enjoy it (as evidenced by it making #1), but to each his own. But to act like you're "offended" is just...ridiculous and snobby. That's the worst kind of fan there is. (this isn't targeted at you, Adacus, just a general statement).
But whatever. I'll say no more on it.
littlegreenwolf wrote: |
britannicamoore wrote: |
The Xenos wrote: |
42nd Street Borders: Manga women's breasts draped across every shelf, every display, littering the aisle. Was offered shojo love and shonen love, but not American comic love. Top selling American comics; like coke in green glass bottles, they don't make them anymore.
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Oh my God. It's time we have a thread for Rorschach's Adventures in Anime. |
Seriously, the idea is amusing me to no end. I'm wanting to draw up some fanart now. But what section to put the thread in? Would something like this even be allowed? |
That would make an excellent webcomic. Someone please do it.
Last edited by bahamut623 on Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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fuuma_monou
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1819
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:54 pm
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Colonel Wolfe wrote: | First, Watchmen isn't a graphic novel, it's a trade paperback collecting the original 12 issue maxi series originally published by D.C. Comics.
Secondly, Bleach is merely a reprinted manga series that has been translated from the original tankouban series. Manga is not graphic novel. |
As far as the publishing business is concerned, "graphic novel" means book-form comics.
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arachneia
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 415
Location: On the wings of Bob Lennon
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:49 am
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bahamut623 wrote: | People read comics for different reasons. Some like to read them because they're....fun! Amazing right? How could it be that people could actually enjoy a comic book that isn't amazingly deep and enlightening? |
Oh, stop it. Bleach isn't fun anymore. It's just one recycled arc after another, with another set of bishies to phase out the old one. I never said you couldn't enjoy a fun comic book, but looking for escapism and entertainment does not mean you should settle for the lowest common denominator, which is what I am criticizing here. There is a wealth of funner shows to choose from, and it's a shame that Bleach is hogging all the spotlight.
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zanarkand princess
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 1484
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:54 am
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arachneia wrote: |
bahamut623 wrote: | People read comics for different reasons. Some like to read them because they're....fun! Amazing right? How could it be that people could actually enjoy a comic book that isn't amazingly deep and enlightening? |
Oh, stop it. Bleach isn't fun anymore. It's just one recycled arc after another, with another set of bishies to phase out the old one. I never said you couldn't enjoy a fun comic book, but looking for escapism and entertainment does not mean you should settle for the lowest common denominator, which is what I am criticizing here. There is a wealth of funner shows to choose from, and it's a shame that Bleach is hogging all the spotlight. |
In your opinion, which is not fact by the way. I don't enjoy it anymore and you don't enjoy it anymore but plenty of people do and they proved it with their money. It's "hogging the spotlight" because it's popular. It's the same with all books/movies/anime/albums/insert media of your choice here.
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arachneia
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 415
Location: On the wings of Bob Lennon
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:07 am
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Which part of that was not fact, the fact that the arcs are redundant, derivative, and repetitive, or the fact that there are higher quality shows and manga out there?
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Lemoncookies23
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 355
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:09 am
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arachneia wrote: |
bahamut623 wrote: | People read comics for different reasons. Some like to read them because they're....fun! Amazing right? How could it be that people could actually enjoy a comic book that isn't amazingly deep and enlightening? |
Oh, stop it. Bleach isn't fun anymore. It's just one recycled arc after another, with another set of bishies to phase out the old one. I never said you couldn't enjoy a fun comic book, but looking for escapism and entertainment does not mean you should settle for the lowest common denominator, which is what I am criticizing here. There is a wealth of funner shows to choose from, and it's a shame that Bleach is hogging all the spotlight. |
"Funner" is not a word.
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arachneia
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 415
Location: On the wings of Bob Lennon
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:14 am
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JairStout wrote: | "Funner" is not a word. |
Thank you, Einstein. Hey, did you know that people are able to coin words using pre-existing grammatical rules, which is how languages grow? Did you know that atheism, homosexuality, and television also aren't really words by your token?
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Jedi General
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2485
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:14 am
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SongstressCela wrote: | I have, thought it was absolutely horrible. Pretentious, overblown, self-important. One of the worst graphic novels I've read in recent memory [...] |
Despite your claims, I seriously doubt you have actually read Watchmen. You say that it is pretentious, overblown, and self-important? Seriously? Stop blowing smoke and actually read the book, or at least read it again for goodness' sake.
As for Bleach overtaking the top spot; well, good for Bleach. Sure it beat out one of the greatest comic books ever, but that is besides the point. This "changing of the guard," as it were, was inevitable. It just so happened that Bleach was the lucky series to do so. It could have been Vampire Knight or even Naruto for that matter. Honestly, I could care less. Just give it a rest, people.
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Colonel Wolfe
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 370
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:24 am
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fuuma_monou wrote: |
Colonel Wolfe wrote: | First, Watchmen isn't a graphic novel, it's a trade paperback collecting the original 12 issue maxi series originally published by D.C. Comics.
Secondly, Bleach is merely a reprinted manga series that has been translated from the original tankouban series. Manga is not graphic novel. |
As far as the publishing business is concerned, "graphic novel" means book-form comics. |
So, what you're saying is that Japanese manga are comic books?
That's like saying Japanese anime are cartoons.
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Animehermit
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 964
Location: The Argama
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:59 am
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Colonel Wolfe wrote: |
fuuma_monou wrote: |
Colonel Wolfe wrote: | First, Watchmen isn't a graphic novel, it's a trade paperback collecting the original 12 issue maxi series originally published by D.C. Comics.
Secondly, Bleach is merely a reprinted manga series that has been translated from the original tankouban series. Manga is not graphic novel. |
As far as the publishing business is concerned, "graphic novel" means book-form comics. |
So, what you're saying is that Japanese manga are comic books?
That's like saying Japanese anime are cartoons. |
yes, anime are cartoons, just like Manga are comics, also saying "Japanese manga" is redundant, as is saying "Japanese anime"
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LeoKnight25
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 319
Location: Puyallup, WA
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:28 pm
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I'm happy for Bleach getting the number 1 spot for this week. I highly enjoyed the 27 volumes that are currently available. As for Watchmen, I've read the first issue and didn't really care for it much. It's not the worst thing I've ever read, but certainly not the greatest as many would say. This is, again, just my opinion. My beef isn't with just Watchmen, per se. It's more with what the American comic industry did after Watchmen came out, which was try and copy that and the Dark Knight Returns. The dreary darkness and hopelessness of the current American scene is really stifling. Everyone wants to write the same things over and over. It's my main reason for dropping just about everything Marvel and DC are doing right now. I just don't want to read so much overly depressing stories, as good as they may be. I'd rather read something that lifts my spirits and Bleach is doing a really good job of that as of late.
I also have to say, in defense of Watchmen's age, yeah, it is 20+ years old but, so what? Has anything in the American comics scene before or since been as thought provoking or deep as that, with the exception of Art Spiegelman's Maus? I really doubt it. Age has nothing to do with quality, as far as I'm concerned. It stayed on the top of the charts because it is an exceptional book, and the movie just pushed it towards that number 1 spot. I think it may be time for the industry to move on and try to stop imitating Alan Moore, Frank Miller and all the other uber-dark writers but, that doesn't have any reflection on the sale of the Watchmen book itself. People should buy it and read it if they want, regardless of how old it is.
I do agree that it would be nice for Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind to be in that number one spot but, I can say that with all certainty that it won't ever get there. The manga industry in America is a totally different beast than the American comics industry itself. American manga fans don't seem to have the same reverence for older manga titles versus American comic fans and their reverence of older, seminal works. I'll put it this way: a manga fan is more likely to pick up the newest volume of one of their favorite long running manga than say either Astro Boy or Nausicaa.
This can probably be attributed to several things: 1. most manga fans seem to be young (probably early teens into their early twenties), whereas it seems the bigger demographic for American comics is mid-late 20's all the way up to their 50's and sometimes older; 2. trying to get a younger person into something a lot older than them is really difficult for whatever reason ; and 3. most older titles are not available on store bookshelves, in favor of making room for the newest flavor of the week stuff.
I don't know how accurate any of this actually is, as this is just based on my observations.
But, again, I'm glad Bleach got the top spot. It's fun stuff and deserves to have it's day in the sun. At the very least for a week.
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Adacus
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 10
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:41 pm
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I
Quote: | t's not so much an issue with anything being said about Bleach (you can feel however you want about it, and I can feel however I want about it), it's just the ridiculous attitude over it beating Watchmen. Zanarkand Princess said pretty much what I feel. Don't act like it's unworthy of being read or the absolute scum of the manga world because it isn't as good as Watchmen. There's an audience for it and people who enjoy it (as evidenced by it making #1), but to each his own. But to act like you're "offended" is just...ridiculous and snobby. That's the worst kind of fan there is. (this isn't targeted at you, Adacus, just a general statement).
But whatever. I'll say no more on it.
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This is a forum to discuss opinions, I'm hardly offended Bleach overtook Watchmen. Merely sharing my thoughts on the overtaking, never said it was unworthy of being read. I can say whatever I like about the overtaking as this is forum of discussion, and sharing opinions.
I feel obliged to share my thoughts circling this overtaking. Again saying Bleach does not deserve to take over Watchmen is really subjective honestly, again.
But I'll stop.
Last edited by Adacus on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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arachneia
Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Posts: 415
Location: On the wings of Bob Lennon
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:28 pm
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LeoKnight25 wrote: | I also have to say, in defense of Watchmen's age, yeah, it is 20+ years old but, so what? Has anything in the American comics scene before or since been as thought provoking or deep as that, with the exception of Art Spiegelman's Maus? |
Um, Sandman, The Preacher, The Fountain, and Kabuki?
Also, Fables is a pretty fun title. Nowhere near Watchmen in its depth, but it does a fair job deconstructing and retelling age-old tales. I especially recommend 1001 of Snowfall, which is a supplementary issue with insanely beautiful art.
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bahamut623
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1463
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:39 pm
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@LeoKnight: I agree, sometimes American comics can be a little too dark and dreary, but there's a lot of it that isn't like that, especially if you search outside of DC or Marvel. Fables (DC..well, Vertigo, which is a DC imprint) is a good example, as are Y: The Last Man (also Vertigo), Bone, Scott Pilgrim, etc.
Adacus wrote: |
This is a forum to discuss opinions, I'm hardly offended Bleach overtook Watchmen. Merely sharing my thoughts on the overtaking, never said it was unworthy of being read. I can say whatever I like about the overtaking as this is forum of discussion, and sharing opinions.
I feel obliged to share my thoughts circling this overtaking. Again saying Bleach does not deserve to take over Watchmen is really subjective honestly, again.
But I'll stop. |
I just wanted to clarify, what I said wasn't aimed at you. When I said "you" before, I meant a general "you", not anyone in particular. I'll stop as well.
Last edited by bahamut623 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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