Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2008-08-29]
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
Author | Message | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
point;blank
Posts: 14 |
|
|||||||||
about the anime price thing:
im not sure how much i would pay for an episode (boxset buyer here), so i will go of some of my previous purchages. i bought all of FMA for $240AU (around $200US), so that makes it around $4.6 ($4) per ep. that is totally worth it. i also bought Angelic Layer for $40 ($35) which is less that a buck an ep, but, personally i think that was a waste of money cause i cant stand watching it & it will probably rot on my shelf. tho on the other hand i will gladly pay $70 for a special edition of haruhi which i already own on R4, only for the better frame rate, clean cover, & the extra stuff u guise got. that works out at about $23 (20) per episode (not including the tv broadcast dvd, which u would already technically own if u had the other dvds), but its still worth it. |
||||||||||
abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
|
|||||||||
You're both missing the real money-maker, the merchandising and peripheral productions market. In essence, many anime (hell, any media products, these days) function as adverts for their merchandise. How much is made off the secondary market depends on the success of the anime / film / TV series / whatever (if it makes its way into iconic status like PokeMon or Star Wars, you are in the money), but it's for certain that the cost of an anime is relatively minor compared to the revenue it can potentially gain from a successful merchandising line. So, if you really, really want to be reductionistic about your pricing, here's the formula: F = ( ( P - S ) / N ) * ( 1 + M ) F: Fair cost per episode, to buy permanently in a downloadable form P: Production and distribution cost of the entire series S: Value of merchandising/secondary rights, over a reasonable period of time N: Number of episodes in the series M: Fractional markup for profit margin All this presupposes a workable distribution system. It also assumes that we're talking fair pricing, as opposed to a more complicated situation. One thing I hear a lot, it seems to me, is the "iTunes comparison", where you are expected to buy individual songs (in anime terms, individual episodes) at a price that, collectively, can add up to more than the cost of the album they derive from -- because (as is well known) not all songs on an album are equally popular. This is, to my mind, an unfair comparison -- because anime don't work that way. Episodes are not (with the exception of children's shows) stand-alone episodes. There is continuity, and you have to have all the episodes to see the anime properly. Therefore the episode-by-episode model only makes sense in the context of allowing fans to test the product, successively downloading episodes until they have decided to buy the whole thing, or not. Of course, a really smart move would be to take the first 2-3 episodes and distribute for free, or at a drastically reduced price. In that case, just use the remaining number of episodes for the value of N, in the formula. And there could be bulk discounts and stuff: "Get the first three episodes for free! Buy ten episodes, get the 11th free! Buy the whole series at once, get 10% off!" Also, not all series are equal. New items may fetch a higher price than old items which have reached their market saturation already. So, assuming I was going to (legally) download an established (= oldish) series, instead of buying the DVDs, what would I pay? Let's pick a longish series, just to make the system more obvious. Yu Yu Hakusho (season 1) is sold at Right Stuf for US$32, more or less, for 28 episodes. That means, if you pay just over $1.10 per episode, you get it on DVD in English, Japanese, and Japanese with English subs, and with (maybe) some extras (it doesn't say). Seasons 2 and 3 are comparably priced. So... if someone is going to sell me that anime in downloadable form, episode by episode, they are going to have to outweigh my disadvantage of not having the item on DVD, and their advantage of not having to produce the DVDs and ship them. I feel confident in saying that the unit price per episode, if I were buying the entire first season, would have to be pretty low -- perhaps as low as 60 cents per episode. On the other hand, I might be interested in a pricing scheme like this: First two episodes: FREE Episodes 3-15: $10 Episodes 16-28: $ 10 All of Season 1 (episodes 1-28): $18 Again, it would depend on the product. If it's an anime that is already in the bargain bins around the world, I'd expect much lower prices. For something hot off the anime mill in Japan, and prepared fast enough to competitively match the fansubbers (and don't say it can't be done) I'd be more than willing to pay premium money. In any case... the industry is going to have to get its act together and start selling competitively priced, rapidly produced quality downloads. They have zero choice in the matter. - abunai |
||||||||||
purplepolecat
Posts: 130 |
|
|||||||||
Some anime episodes are priceless - for me this would be the first episode of Black Lagoon, or the mushroom episode of Cowboy Bebop, or the Visually Appealing episode of Excel Saga.
Others, you couldn't pay me enough to watch all the way through. The problem is, there's no way to know before you watch. ANN's user ratings and the opinions of people on forums are of limited use, as almost any series will have both rabid fans and haters. Poorly made trailers are no help. This is why I rent most of my anime now. $60 for a season, or $20 for 3 eps, is a bargain price for excellent anime; but if I haven't seen it, I might be throwing my money away. Back in the days of Newtype, they gave away DVDs with ep1 of a whole bunch of shows. This was a fantastic idea. I think some companies are doing something similar via downloads. Bravo ! BTW, Obama, your convention is BORING. I didn't see anyone cosplaying. |
||||||||||
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||
Don't you have that backwards? It's the American audience that keeps trying to divide BL into hardcore as 'yaoi' & softer stuff that doesn't even get beyond kissing (a lot of yaoi falls into this catagory) as "shonen-ai" I'm in the process of renewing all my manga subscriptions at Sanseido & for over a year I've been getting the monthly or bi-monthly releases of Gush, BeXBoy, BeXBoy Gold, & Karen & every month every one of those zines have "BL" or "Sweet & Happy Boys Love" on the cover. The Chara 10/08 I picked up last night has Wild Adapter, Voice or Noise, Eyed Soul & some ongoing "Animal Essay" we've seen for several issues about cats. Cats, boys kissing & full-on porn all in one issue & they are all like this. I swear each month the artists are told which ones will do smut & which ones can hold off just to keep a balance ("No more than 5 stories can have sex" or "At least 7 chapters have to have sex in them in the November issue") . BeXBoy Gold in particular seems to make sure we don't get sex in every story ("You had it last issue. Another author will draw sex for the next issue")
The places I hang out online are largely male so the biggest fans of yuri I see are males. And I have seen many of them throw around the term "shojo-ai".
My then 12 yr old was the one who wanted Fake & Gravitation so she actually got me into it. Yaoi is basically Harlequin Romance with 2 guys. The attraction is romance without the screechy/sneaky/evil females. I cannot recall any character in yaoi that I've read that rivals that "friend" in Peach Girl who was always after the stuff the lead liked. Yaoi is FANTASY. The boys are beautiful. They lead different lives from the masses. Even if they have problems, it's still different, like the old image people had in the 30's & 40's that Hollywood movie stars were different, rarified creatures from the rest of us. As for how to tell, you really have to know the authors. The ones who do smut, do smut. Others tend to do lighter. sweet innocent romance stuff. Minami runs high on sex & nudity. Yamane & Michalski usually deliver in each story. Matsumoto tends to be softer. Kisaragi has hot guys, but I can't remember actually seeing any "naughty" body parts in his artbook nor in the title TP brought over. (Minami does lots of private parts) But it is really true most males have this image that yaoi is like Playboy for gals & just to argue the point over at another forum I counted pages in several yaoi novels I happened to have picked up within that month at Sanseido & out of the average 200 page novel, most had less than 20 pages each of anything close to sex. Yeah, a couple managed to make about 30 pages, but one had 4 pages of nothing more than the guys in bed on top of one another-i.e. what one can see in a PG movie easily.
I think there are still hentai manga being released, but realistically guys are more visual than gals. I see far more guys say they don't want to read manga, they want to watch anime. THey also tend to be the ones I see use the excuse they don't want to read subtitles--they want to watch the screen.
Most yaoi is one-shots. Few last beyond 4 volumes. THere are a few titles that sustain past that (Love Mode-apparently 11 will be the last), but for the most part it's pointless to go past the acquisition. It's fantasy. Most yaoi fans seem to enjoy the pursuit & capture, but do we want to stick around for the ugly divorce? Not really. Our boys are supposed to live happily ever after. Do we need to see Cinderella & her prince 10 years later? Do we want to know Kei cheated on Ranmaru & they haven't spoken in 10 yrs? |
||||||||||
fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
|
|||||||||
Certainly an interesting column of the week. But I have to agree, that flake was trying to hard, I couldn't even comprehend what the hell he was even trying to say.
|
||||||||||
sunflower
Posts: 1080 |
|
|||||||||
This is not accurate. The term BL in Japan is used for all MalexMale publications for women. It translates as the same thing as shounen-ai, but the two genres should not be confused. Shounen-ai was a genre in the 70s-80s that had to do with pure love, not sexual love, between boys. BL is the current umbrella term for all MxM including what was once called yaoi. Yaoi is a term of the past in Japan that most mangaka don't want associated with their works because it represents the earlier days of PWP doujinshi, and it's considered by many to be insulting. Those who use it are often outside the genre and tend to look down upon the genre. BL manaka are often quite shocked to hear it called yaoi over in the States, until someone explains that we can't use the term Boys Love because of related connotations, and that we use it as they use BL. Please go here for an accurate set of definitions: http://www.aestheticism.com/visitors/reference/jpnse_def/index.htm Aestheticism.com is a site for the oldest yaoi fangroup among English-speaking fans. They've been around since the 90s, and are considered by many to be authorities on the subject. Edited for clarity |
||||||||||
Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
|
|||||||||
Interesting stuff and I take your point. I do have some queries though: 1) Surely this doesn't apply to all TV anime - just the toy-promoting children's shows and the otaku stuff? I'm guessing the likes of, say, Master Keaton don't rake in a lot of merchandising cash? 2) If the anime is not an original property (i.e. it's a manga, video game, light novel or other adaptation) don't most (if not all) of the merchandise returns go to the original IP holder rather than the anime producer? 3) Even if it is an original property, how can the producers accurately predict ahead of time what the merchandising returns are likely to be in order to factor them into their pricing structure? |
||||||||||
Anime World Order
Posts: 389 Location: Florida |
|
|||||||||
That site's blocked from where I work, and when I made the first post I was trying to remember what that specific page said. Naturally, I got it all muddled up since I couldn't even remember my own dentist's appointment today on my own. Why, in its own roundabout way, this all kind of illustrates the point I was trying to make regarding the confusion with regards to all this stuff resulting in people--like myself--incorrectly applying terminology! |
||||||||||
CatzCradle
Posts: 230 Location: Canada |
|
|||||||||
SECONDED! If possible, please post the rest of this fic. |
||||||||||
otakuQT
Posts: 9 |
|
|||||||||
Thank you! altho, i think that Luffy would win 'ticked off' or not. Luffy has been against monsters and enemies more menacing than an angry demon fox and a ninja clone army...put together! in addition he's managed to keep his comrades together, despite all of their tragic pasts. |
||||||||||
konkonsn
Posts: 172 Location: Illinois |
|
|||||||||
Hence why I dislike yaoi and a lot of its subsets similar to why there are quite a few people who dislike Harlequin novels. I took a Japanese Culture class when I studied in Kyoto for a semester with a very liberal teacher, and we covered homosexuals in Japan. There were whole articles on shounen-ai and how it's not written for actual gay men but for women who want to believe that gay men are sensitive and loving unlike the cultural stereotype of the heterosexual man (who loves other women but not his wife?). I distinctly remember one quote about how women really liked shounen-ai (and this is perhaps a reason shoujo-ai is also liked by women?) because it showed a relationship of equals rather than dominate/submissive. It brings up this unrealistic stereotype of how gay men are. "Real" gay men - the type who are only into guys - cross dress and are submissive to a "male" in their relationship (wait, what happened to the relationship of equals?). Gay men are, after all, only women in men's bodies. As for the gay men that are a bit more "manly," well, they're not really gay. They're bisexual (if you want to call them that), and most of the time they only got with this one guy because (as pointed out above) he's more or less a woman anyway. Gay men get this huge stereotype that they'd be the perfect companion for a Japanese woman...-_- Either that, or that they're good comic relief on television shows. Off of that rant, I'd also like to point out that yaoi might be a bit more popular because unlike your typical shoujo comic, it's got a lot more sexual energy. I'm not talking NC-17; the kisses themselves are deeper and more frequent. There's more intimate touching (pressing bodies against each other rather than just holding hands). This may be because, as the original poster pointed out, men are considered sexual, so it's ok. Women are considered virgins or sluts. You can't touch them, and you certainly can't kiss anymore than a light peck, otherwise your virgin becomes a slut. There are exceptions...a lot of those visual novels manage to get you to have sex with a girl who still retains her innocence throughout the game. But that's something else... |
||||||||||
CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||
One of Naruto's big tricks (from the early days at least)-the naked clone thing-would mean squat to Luffy. He'd punch it anyway. I'm sorry, Luffy's a wicked evil little juggernaut when he gets going. I usually like him, but when he gets it in his head to go after Zoro, he's relentless.
There really is no one price per ep just as there is no one price per ep on domestic stuff. Obviously if someone finally released Brimstone on dvd, I'd probably be willing to go Brisco County on the price scale rather than the more mass appeal stuff like Supernatural. Same for anime. If we ever got Galactic Heroes, I probably wouldn't mind Bandai Visual-type prices. I wouldn't go that for Dragonball. I am so grateful to get each Super Robot Wars & Haruka dvd, I give each one my undivided attention unlike Fafner or Adult Swim on Saturday when I'm usually on the net at the same time. Overall, $1-5 per ep is average while I've paid about $11 per ep for SRW. Of course, one also pays more for a movie be it live action or anime-$15-$25 for 60-120 minutes It really comes down to how much I enjoyed the product if I've seen it before or how much I expect to enjoy it if I haven't. I've been interested in Ouran & Ghost Hunt since before either were made into anime. Ouran has Koyasu in a support role--brownie points there, so I'll spring the tad extra Funi's asking to see it sooner rather than wait to see if we get a viridian box. While Koyasu's also a support role in Negima, I'm totally cold on that one (shouta) so I am waiting for the Viridian set. The Ghost Hunt manga is excellent & I'm fond of the manga-ka, so I'm actually more interested in that anime & count myself lucky Funi's priced it lower. I expect more out of Ghost Hunt, so I'm willing to pay more. |
||||||||||
Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
|
|||||||||
You can't be serious. That's a joke that I am just not getting right? Not all homosexuals feel the need to dress in womens clothing, nor do they feel they are a women trapped in a mans body. They fully believe and understand that they are men, and they fully realize that they are attracted only to other men. And no I am not talking about confused little boys, I am talking about full blown gay. No pun intended. What your saying here is basically that the only real gay men in the world are those whom are transgendered(psychologically), and that's just not the case. |
||||||||||
Showsni
Posts: 641 |
|
|||||||||
When I read this week's question, it didn't cross my mind for a minute that it was about price - I thought it meant worth, as in how much one episode is worth in the show as a whole, or as a stand alone piece, and so on. Then everyone's talking about prices in here! It depends entirely on which episode, and which series. Something which is entirely filler, doesn't advance the plot at all and has no deeper meaning is obviously not worth much to the series. A touching episode, one where characters grow or the story is advanced is obviously going to be worth a lot more.
|
||||||||||
konkonsn
Posts: 172 Location: Illinois |
|
|||||||||
Guess my sarcasm didn't translate all the way through. Um, no, I don't believe that. Looking at shounen-ai, though, you would be led to believe that. I'm pointing out how gay men, portrayed in Japanese comics, still uphold the values of masculinity and femininity in their society. |
||||||||||
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
||
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group