Forum - View topicAnswerman - Who Are Subtitles Written For?
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I would say it might be possible the script was written by someone who frequently confuses "B" with "V" (much like how signs in Engrish frequently confuse "L" and "R"), but I figure that's probably a stretch. |
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s0nicfreak
Posts: 21 Location: near Chicago |
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Unless a person plans on taking the JLPT, I don't see the disservice in this. |
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s0nicfreak
Posts: 21 Location: near Chicago |
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Shouldn't this depend on the person's goal? If their goal is simply to play games and watch anime in Japanese (which is enough for most people's' lives, isn't it?), then learning "anime" Japanese is just fine, and I see no reason to find it embarrassing. If their goal is to go to Japan and have a conversation, or to get a (non-anime/game) translator job then it's not enough, but they'd realize that quickly. I find it strange how accepting we (people in general) are of people that can't speak English completely correctly, but we jump all over people who dare to speak Japanese at the same level. No one ever speaks of embarrassment when someone speaks English with a thick accent, but don't you dare to have bad Japanese pronunciation! People who learn English from American media and say odd things that native speakers don't actually say - perfectly acceptable. People with a "baby voice" (which I have heard from many people raised in Asia) in English are accepted; but dare to speak "anime" Japanese aloud and suddenly you're the shame of all anime fans everywhere. I don't get it. |
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peno
Posts: 349 |
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Actually, I was talking merely about translators, not actors. The actors in dubs not only have translated and edited dub script, but also have video in front of them and may even have the original sound in headphones. Translators don't have that. They are translating from written scripts, submitted by the original creators, which have dialogues and may (but also may not) have some other additional notes from creators. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Oh, what I was talking about are the Japanese actors, who would get the Japanese script. If they see "ビー" in the script, how would they know it's "B," "V," or something else? Of course, I was also told that they likely have the letter itself in the script, which would clear up a lot of confusion. |
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vonPeterhof
Posts: 729 |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Yeah, you did mention that, and I forgot about it. Sorry. |
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Banken
Posts: 1280 |
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LOL, no. An anime translator for simulcast series will be lucky if they even have high-quality video files to work with, much less an actual script. At least, every video translation I've ever done has been by listening. I would bet only proper video releases are actually translated via scripts. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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I've definitely seen translations that were done from scripts, as in there are mistakes made that shouldn't happen with reference to the video.
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peno
Posts: 349 |
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Actually, no. Most of the official subs are not done from video. If you were working on fansubs, then yes, you were doing that by ear. However, in official translations, translators don't usually see the video or even hear an audio. There may be some exceptions, but those are scarce. The video will not come into the process until timing (or script editing for dubs). And that is especially true for simulcast subs, where the video is not usually delivered until a few hours before release time and at that time, the translation has to be done already, so the timing process may start. Hence, the translation is done from scripts, which, however, may not be final scripts and may require additional translations once the final work is eventually submitted. I believe there were an Answerman article regarding this. |
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doomydoomdoom
Posts: 278 Location: Michigan, USA |
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I never did understand why pro translators feel they have to appeal to "the masses who don't understand the difference between Asian languages/cultures" anyhow, as such people who are that dumb/uneducated will not be watching subtitled anime anyhow. They will watch it dubbed if they watch anime at all, save for the odd big movie and TV fans who will watch anything including cartoons and happen across a subbed-only copy of something interesting.
Obviously, though, you can't turn a translation into a Japanese class. But neither should you cheat the viewer by making up new puns/jokes and trying to find ways around cultural items (itadakimasu and the dreaded Let's Eat which is not what itadakimasu means at all as any veteran anime buff knows by now) |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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That's an incredibly condescending, elitist tone in that paragraph there, referring to "the masses" as "dumb/uneducated." An anime fan is not necessarily smarter than anything else. Maybe more knowledgeable on anime, but it does not mean everyone else is stupid. If anything, what I keep seeing are the hardcore anime fans who can tell you a lot about anime but have an incredibly narrow knowledge base on everything else that isn't part of their schooling or job. (It's not just anime fans, but hardcore fans of near anything, as they're so intensely dedicated to their hobbies that they don't exhibit interest in anything else.) THAT, if you ask me, is a sign of dumbness and uneducatedness. You also make it sound like dubbed anime does not use pro translators, which doesn't make any sense--something like Samurai Pizza Cats is an exception rather than a rule. Also, anime is a type of cartoon. I'm not sure if it was intentional or not, but as a fan of cartoons in general, the statement about cartoons struck a nerve with me because the statement was worded as if the only people who watch cartoons are people who will watch anything, which is very untrue. It also suggests that people who watch anime don't watch any other forms of animation, to which I'd say anyone who does that is missing out on a lot. Finally, there is a sweeping generalization here assuming that casual fans don't watch anime subbed unless they stumble across them. There is plenty of overlap, trust me.
It's definitely a subject of much flame-warring, but I am on the side of substituting puns and jokes if they cannot be translated over. The purpose of puns and jokes is to be humorous, and, as the Joker has said many times, "a joke isn't funny if you have to explain it." I am also on the side of having as few translator's notes and cultural notes as possible, as it reflects poorly on the translator's own writing skill and their mastery of the language being translated to if they cannot explain something through dialogue and on-screen text alone. (I actually was never that interested in Japanese culture and know what I know through osmosis. So I actually don't fully understand "itadakimasu"--what short phrase should it be translated to if not "let's eat"?) |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11378 |
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This seems like a pretty knowledgeable explanation to me. Certainly more of one than you'll get from watching anime. Last edited by Gina Szanboti on Thu May 25, 2017 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Ah, thanks. I DO see the phrase "I humbly receive" in some translations, and I also sometimes see "Thank you for the meal," which I'm sure is due to there also being a western prayer before a meal (though it's thanks to the Lord rather than...whomever "itadakimasu" is addressed to). I always thought it WAS the equivalent of "We thank the Lord for this meal," though that's a cultural aspect I never fully understood either as I have never partaken in any form of pre-meal ritual (and neither did my parents). I didn't know it was something secular until that link. So many things to do to behave acceptably in Japan...I don't think I could stand living there for more than a week, even if I knew the language, as I wouldn't be able to keep track of it all. |
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relyat08
Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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itadakimasu can be used, and often is used, in business settings or settings where you are speaking with someone superior to you, from my understanding as well. It's not just for food, but "I humbly receive" this item, your help, anything like that. I frequent a language sharing forum called hinative, and people regularly thank Japanese users for their help by saying something like advice/help/etc wo itadakimashita.
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