Forum - View topicWhy is Shinji hated so much?
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber
Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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No it isn't. He's a fictional character. He has no feelings when we call him a "loser" whether or not we're correct. On the other hand, making assumptions about real people on this forum that may or may not be true I can see as trolling (that isn't what I really saw it as, but I can understand it as being such). Either way, this arguement is now veering into personal aspects with everybody using this "you don't like him because you identify with his loser qualities". An arguement completely based on assumptions. I'm not really wanting to participate in it anymore. Last edited by PantsGoblin on Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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10円
Posts: 605 |
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Interesting thread. I feel like I've gained a little bit more insight into a series that has perplexed me to varying degrees for a long time now. Like many/most men, I don't consider wearing my emotions on my sleeve a terribly positive trait and it's certainly not something that's expected or desired of us in most situations where I come from. I never really thought about the possibility of relating to Shinji on a subconscious level but it seems to make a lot of sense. It might not be enough to explain all of the widespread hatred directed toward Shinji, but it sure seems to explain some of it. Thanks to everyone who provided their various viewpoints on Shinji and his critics.
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Iwatch2muchanime
Posts: 1291 |
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Although I wasn't part of this (because I didn't want it to end up the way it is now, thilly me) I do believe that if you make an assumption on anyone on this or any other froum, hell at all, over anything that can or can't be a fact, is trolling, even in real life. So you're trolling in real life. and TELLING us crap like "you don't like him because you identify with his loser qualities" or "you don't try to understand him" by assuming we do just so you can yell at us, is stupid and even more ignorant then I am. I don't like him because he won't shut up and kill things already. If he doesn't save the world, then his past won't matter and he cant do something about it in the future. And nobody tell me that he was actually hoping for Rei or Asuka to do it because then I would be on the HATE him side 100% for relying on a week bodied and extremely arrogant pair to do what only he could do. Now my thoughts on Shinji. I'm on that mid-bar for this. He is an idiot crybaby, with bigger responsabilities then his brain, or anybodies brain, wants to handle, but he wants to handle how and who he will complain to next about his Horrible situation and past that nobody cares enough about to listen to, because they are FIGHTING GIANT MONSTERS! Either he's doing this at the wrong time or everybody is heartless and it's their fault for his behavior. Shinji's half-retarded brain needs to get on the problem at hand and kill those B1tches, then he can complain to somebody, because they might care at that point. So basically I'm saying that in my point of view, he's either to self wollowing or almost everybody else is heartless and don't care. Making him the way he is. But I will say that he does hold in his "mental" pain quite well. (Yes I know most of what I said only applys for little over the first half of the series, before learning more about what's going on but come on, while having no idea whats really going down, that's what he should've done.) Wow I seem like an ass. but oh well. I assume I'm going to be yelled at by what I said, so I'm going to be ignorant of it and not reply. Last edited by Iwatch2muchanime on Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Swissman
Posts: 768 Location: Switzerland |
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Eh...... I don't want to be too off topic and sarky, but weren't you the guy who violently disagreed with anybody who thought Suzumiya Haruhi's gimmick-narration wasn't so original and great some months back? Anyway, I don't quite see what's the problem with Hellkorn's statement. People usually don't want to be entertained by stories and characters which serve as big remainders of reality and/or which don't meet audience's expectations of a certain genre. If that wasn't be the case, art cinema movies would be far more appreciated in general (and Evangelion's ending as well, but that's another story). |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Eh, depends on what most would label as truly "mainstream," but I get what you're saying. I myself can love a mainstream anime now and then (Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Paranoia Agent, Wolf's Rain) but generally I tend to veer away from it and look for even more niche type of material.
I really hope that you don't apply this to all of the circumstances that life may bring us. Someone who is captured and tortured in a war can only do so much, and some people just need help so bad because of some psychological issues in which they simply can't be happy at all. Never mind an extreme case, whether portrayed in fiction or reality, like Joe from Johnny Got His Gun. Just sayin', not accusin'.
Whoa, slow down there, buddy. "Not speaking from experience"? What I was referring to is a case in general about what the majority of people what out of entertainment. It's a form of escapism. Do you know why so many people love happy endings where everything is right and protest when it's a sad, bitter ending? Do you know why so many people want admirable heroes and heroines to take charge and despise it when the protagonists are hesitant and actually don't want to be in that position? Because those ideas are romantic, they're a break away from real life, and for those moments that you're swept away into those stories you don't have to be reminded of the problems that you have in your real life. You yourself admitted to hating people when they do that in real life. That's an instance right there. Personally I couldn't bring myself to hate Shinji when I first watched it because while watching him, Misato, and Asuka, I saw parts of myself in all three of them. That's what Anno's intentions were, to not only present a part of himself on screen, but also have the viewers make a connection to these lonely, depressed characters who show the weaknesses that just about all of us have, in one form or another. I don't see where my point is lacking because I'm not making accusations that someone who doesn't like Shinji definitely has some similar aspects to the personality of his character. While that is true for others, some, like yourself, hate him because you hate people like that in real life. When that's carried over into fiction, you hate it as well. I don't see why you can't grasp that.
I'd get the f*** outta dodge, myself.
But then again, it wouldn't have come to be as popular and would've been swept under the rug, rarely talked about at all like so many other other anime. Considering that and how the television ending leading to The End of Evangelion like it did, fans of both the series and the movie probably should be grateful it went the way it did.
Uh, he killed spoiler[the most Angels out of all the pilots.] The only time where he ever really shirked that duty was in spoiler[episode eighteen when he didn't want to fight against and potentially kill another human,] which while he could've better handled it, was honestly a humane thing to do.
Oh lawd, the terminology used here makes me shake my head...
All of us at one point say something that contradicts are behavior/words prior. This seems to be frequently common in both real life and on the Internet...
Bingo. |
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Kouji
Posts: 978 |
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I can understand why some some people might dislike Shinji, but how can someone totally hate him? He's voiced by Megumi Ogata, one of the best Japanese VAs out there. Which makes me wonder how many people who hate Shinji watched Evangelion dubbed....But seriously, what I really don't understand is why is it that Shinji gets so much hate, but you never hear quite as many people complain about Asuka. I mean, come on, she angsts because she lost to Shinji. Shinji may have been whiny and spineless, but at least he didn't whine because somebody saved his ass.
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Raven Shinobi
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Megumi Ogata also happened to voice Kurama from Yu Yu Hakusho who unlike Shinji one of the if not 'the' most favored character in this anime and who is also -unlike Shinji- adored by legions of fangirls. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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How the woman kept her voice with all those chillin screams she did is something I'll never figure out.
You're not looking hard enough. Asuka be second in line for most hated character in Evangelion, behind Shinji... Actually, not true. I think Gendo secures that spot.
Thar also be some underlying issues that carried over from certain events in episode fifteen, which is made clear in the "director's cut" version in episode twenty-two. Plus, Asuka's egotism was as much credit to spoiler[her downfall, and considering that her past was probably the most traumatic next to Misato's,] so I'd hesitate to point the finger at either of 'em. Of course, I'm one of those car-wazy people who actually prefers unlikable characters over likable characters if given the choice, so take it as you will. |
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hentai4me
Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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1) did he ask for these responsibilities? 2) Is he REALLY qualified to take them on or does he merely happen to have 'family connection' and genetics on his side? 3) Clearly HE cares about his past, and as HE is the one who has had this responsibility THRUST upon him surely what HE cares about should be important to those who want him to do that job. 4) Because they are fighting giant monsters the fact they are human and have human thoughts and emotions becomes moot? 5) Tell me, you watch as trained soldiers go into a fight and get gunned down, killed and generally made a lot worse for wear. Then your dad comes up to you and gives you a gun, he then tells you it's now YOUR job to sort this situation out. How do YOU feel about this? Do you HONESTLY think you'd just take the gun and go running out to fight? In modern warfare the mental welfare of soldiers is the MoD's job to maintain. The government and thus the MoD expects these men to go out and fight for their country, is it REALLY that much to expect there to be some kind of system by which these men and women can voice their thoughts and feeling, to express their fears and get help resolving them? Instead of getting the mental support that the pilots (and the supporting staff) need they are expected to completely set these aside and GO TO SCHOOL! Tell me those of you who work in a company, is there a system of support for employees dealing with personal and work related problems? Perhaps a company psychiatrist or paid leave for mental as well as physical illness? If some company like Barcalays bank can provide this for people in much less serious situations surely an organisation like NERV can provide at least a basic form of this? I dislike Shinji...but then I dislike Eva in general...not because the series is poor but because it seems to breed fanboys and girls who seem to think that by virtue of watching this series they have some kind of qualification to speak about those who have suffered from a mental condition. Different people react differently, need different support and are cured by different methods. For me, overcoming my depression required me to go out and start doing things again...without the support of my family and friends literally dragging me out of bed and taking me to the sports centre I'd probably have popped myself by now. Put simply Shinji needs help, if NERV expects him to do this job they should damn well provide it for him. The ones truly at fault are the people who organised NERV without providing some kind of support network...and of cource the recruitment staff who hired such a group of psychos in the first place (pilots aside...they kind of had to be used) Now answer my questions satisfactorily (hell anyone who wants to can go ahead) |
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BlooDrAgOn
Posts: 156 |
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For one thing, I understand Shinji's position - I've been a social outcast (no I haven't), I've been rejected by the person I want to understand me the most (no I've never been rejected), I've had my father abandon me (not really), some hot mother-like person tried to seduce me (never happened....but that'd be nice), one of my friends is a clone of my mom, and come on, who hasn't ridden around in an artificial clone of god while smashing aliens that invade your planet.
spoiler[Sarcasm] Well the point is, no one really tries to understand him, both the people in the anime, and the ones watching. Come on...if you were in a situation like him (and me ) what would you do? Absolutely nothing. He's friggen 14 years old. Although I don't hate him, I don't go around saying 5#!NJ! !5 T3H B35T!!!11! I think people don't really like him because he's too realistic. Because the reason why many people watch anime is to enter a world where just about anything goes, but it's far from reality. |
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Iwatch2muchanime
Posts: 1291 |
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1: No of course he didn't ask for those responsibilities, not many people would. He also took it better then I would, I would've just said no and the world would've ended, at least he fought. 2: No he doesn't qualify, he only has genetics on his side. Which is another reason he took this better then some people would. 3: I know that HE cares and I know that OTHERS should care too, for if they want him to do well, they need to consult him more. But they didn't and if they're not, and Shinji knows they're not at midway point, then Shinji needs to get over it and focus more on the Angels and training to get rid of them. 4: I'm actually not sure how to answer this one........ 5: No, like I said, I would just say "F*CK that!" and we'd all be screwed. I have no confidence that I would do anything life-threatening, because i'm a wimp. But since Shinji, although reluctantly, took up the position after a while, I would expect him to do a lot more than he did with a lot less moping and complaining.
I know that also. NERV didn't do much, if anything (depends on the view), to help poor Shinji through his problems. But Shinji isn't stupid and after realizing that they weren't going to attempt anything, he needs to attempt to cope with his situation until the big disaster is finished with. Like I said, I was midway on this and knew that NERV didn't help him through his problems. But also know that Shinji didn't need to do complain as much as he did. Anybody who might think that I haven't had any problems needs to stop. Like PantsGoblin said though. I don't like to bring it up or complain to other's about it because it does nothing to help. I just view it as something that can happen to anybody and go on being happy all the time and cracking jokes about everything.
I know he killed the most Angels, and I commend him for doing so. But he's always reluctant to fight and doesn't need to be if he's the only one who's good enough anyway. And sorry about the terminology? |
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Viga_of_stars
Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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well he was whiny in most of the series and is the definition of EMO in anime. i actually dont really care much about him to hate or like him. im a rei girl and a anti-asuka.
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selenta
Subscriber
Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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First of all, it was hardly violent. Second, I was arguing a case, not just repeatedly claiming the same single-minded mantra in the hopes that repeating it a billion times somehow made it true. Third, as I said I don't have a problem with people who liked Shinji, or the viewpoint that they have; the problem I have is the ignorant assumption that because they like it for one reason, people must dislike it for the exact opposite reason, and then repeatedly claiming that in the face of contradictory first hand testimony. It's not hypocritical in the slightest.
Perhaps you should look again at what is going on. Hellkorn claims:
This is wrong, as I said. I don't dislike him because he makes me think and reconsider my world or anything like that, I dislike him because he has a personality trait I abhor as useless and despicable above all else. I agreed that people watch anime as a form of entertainment, and I agree that Shinji's attidude may be reminiscent of real people's attitudes at times, but we do not agree on why his personality reminding us of real life is bad. There's two sides we can look at here: 1.) Hellkorn assumes why I (and other people) must not like something 2.) I tell you the actual reason I don't like it Which one holds more vaildity to you? Now on to Hellkorn's actual posts.
Actually, I would still apply my philosophy to this situation of a POW. I never said they had to actually be effective at changing their situation, or even be trying to break loose every chance they got (as that would actually be counter-productive towards their goal of making it out alive), but they do have to be trying. I also never said how they have to be trying, and in the POW example, the best way to make it out alive is to wait patiently for an opportunity and always be on the lookout for said opportunity by maintaining a healthy mindset. Wallowing in your own misery and not doing anything to help your situation is a prime example of someone who is not trying.
See above. We don't agree on why Shinji's personality trait of being a 'wet sponge' reminding us of real life is a bad thing. The biggest problem I had was in your repeated claims of understanding the opposing viewpoint of people who dislike Shinji, and making character statements about said people, when several people were claiming otherwise and you just ignored what they said. |
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Darth_Blade
Posts: 109 Location: Saint-Petersburgh, Russia |
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"Entertainment" can mean a lot of things. In the case of NGE it can mean even more. Some find entertainment in the action scenes. Some in the characters. Yet others in the plot.
Has it ever occured to you that by criticizing things people are actually trying to get the author to make their future works more "right"? Also, you're complaining about people who are complaining. Are you doing anything to change the situation? Going on killing sprees, perhaps?
I don't think you even agreed on what a bad thing is, thus... um... I think you're complaining, instead of actually arguing a point |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Not everyone reacts the same way you do. Not all problems are equal to each other. Not every has the same environment to grow up and live in. Not everyone has the same make-up in how they can control what they feel.
Huh? So, let's say a sniper in a war goes through the horrid weather conditions, is in constant danger of being exposed, gets overworked with little to no rest, sees his friends getting killed in front of them, and he has absolutely no right at all to think to himself "Why the hell do I have to be in this position?". Man, a lot of peoples' criticism of how others should act, real or fictional, is just downright ridiculous.
It wasn't the most... intellectual, per se.
And I along with others on this thread have been doing the latter?
"Contradictory first hand testimony"? Oh, no offense, good sir, but what the hell are you talking about?
You're complaining about people complaining, and you're criticizing others for criticism... Well now...
How is that wrong? Those people are part of what you know. Those people are part of your world. You're being reminded of those type of people you hate when you see a fictional character acting in similar ways. You hate the character. What the devil is "not true" about that? I also like how you so easily label others as "useless" and "despicable." I mean, Christ, whatever happened to actually showing a bit of compassion for others? If you consider those type of people useless, then, because they complain about something wrong in their lives, then does this mean that they should just die or go away? The same for homeless people? The same for a man/woman who might've lost their family and just go on aimlessly?
Hn? Wait, did I ever say that fiction serving as a reminder to real life is bad? I thought I was stating the exact opposite.
Sheesh, not really sure what to say. Either I'm not making my case clear enough, or you don't have an focused idea as to what you're really trying to address.
But does people would be useless and despicable by what you said, right? How about for POWs that have been held captive for years and are barely still alive? "Cheer up, buddy, you're going to be set free soon!" Do you honestly think something like that would cheer him up? Reason to live just to go on being a prisoner? Also, does this mean that those who are drafted by a war that they don't want to be in have no right to complain? A war where there is no black and white, and you have no real idea what's what and who is fighting for what?
Hn? Again, I never said that it was a bad thing. I don't recall you saying that it was a bad thing, in spite of how you feel that you hate that trait in a person.
No, I'm afraid that you're ignoring what I'm saying. I'm not saying that every single people dislike/hate Shinji because he reminds them of themselves. I'm not saying that you or anyone else are an awful person for feeling that way (though some of your other comments have made me hesitant). I'm saying that you and others hate Shinji because he is, in a sense, very real. He reminds you and other people of the types you hate in real life. You hate those people, thus it is likely you hate Shinji for having the same persona, for acting the same way. You don't like the fact that a fictional character is being portrayed because he/she reminds you of something you hate in real life, so you hate that character because he/she is like a person and/or group of people you hate. Your complaint of Shinji is the same as what others have said about him in this thread, about what others who hate him have said elsewhere. People who complain about other characters, Misato, Asuka, Ritsuko, Gendo, etc. have similar complaints for the characters. How is it that you can't come to terms with that observation? |
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