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mdreura
Posts: 106 |
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Does anybody really need to explain why female perspectives on misogyny are more meaningful? Of course. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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And? You've been given one, which both Hitokiri and I pretty much are in full agreement with. I don't see the issue. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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So.. has anyone provided some statistics on how many moe watchers are raging misogynists? And for fairness sake, how many fujoshi who are raging misandrists? I would surely hope people haven't spend the last 5 pages talking about this subject on a purely "he said, she said" basis.
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poonk
Posts: 1490 Location: In the Library with Philip |
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Last edited by poonk on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wrathful
Posts: 372 |
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For the longest time, I thought some of people with strong opinions are very passive-aggressive and I still think that is the case. Some people I've seen doesn't even know what they are talking about yet accuses moe fans of being misogynists just because of few vocal moe fans and keeps on pushing their own agenda just because they can.
So what if they are misogynists? If you just leave them alone, they will enjoy their own hobbies. So what gives the moral crusaders the privileges to act condescending and treat the medium that accordingly. Just get off that soapbox. |
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mdreura
Posts: 106 |
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We boys can call eachother names all day. It's like a hobby for us. What I'm more interested in is: Do you agree? Do you think moe fans are raging misogynists, as at least one person has said tonight? Do you think moe fans are shame-worthy? |
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poonk
Posts: 1490 Location: In the Library with Philip |
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Last edited by poonk on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Draneor
Posts: 355 |
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Read this and tell me that's not misogyny. That might be the most extreme example posted in this thread, but there are others too. I filter that kind of person out of my life. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that everyone can filter that kind of person away.
Yeah this. Also, as you said, the internet is self-segregating. I don't frequently visit 4-chan or Reddit for example (as my limited experience with them indicates they are infested with not-so-nice-people on many issues). Carefully choosing friends is another. But not everyone has that luxury. Some people pick up cyber stalkers that harass a person from website to website. Those harassed are often female or gay. My experience is limited because, in many ways, I'm immune from seeing it.
Yes, let's mention a non-existent problem and pretend it's equivalent. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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No, but as someone that consumes m/m media, I have to be aware of the fact that it can be damaging to actual homosexual people. This doesn't mean I have to give up something I love completely, it means I have to be sensitive to other people it may affect, listen to discussions about that subject with an open mind, and be willing to self-reflect about my own habits frequently. Another frequent topic of conversation in the female-oriented m/m side of fandom is misogyny in our own ranks, and how to react to/avoid it. No one likes to be called misogynistic (including me!), but even being female doesn't exclude me from being labeled that way. The only thing that can exclude me from that are my own actions and how I react to the actions of others. I think it's a good point when people bring up the fact that moe fans probably aren't any more misogynistic as a whole than fandom itself, but I do think you are somewhat less likely to get strong dissent from within their ranks than other portions of fandom when sexist language begins to pop up. (Obviously, this is a generalization, as many moe fans in this thread were outraged at the ridiculous anti-feminist screed, which was wonderful to see.) |
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Timeenforceranubis
Posts: 171 |
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I think it's the other way around, actually. People are painted as misogynists because there's a lack of social empathy for their situation (No girlfriend, moe as a coping mechanism). Among the group of people in that situation, misogynists exist, but the effort to force this misogyny conversation where the conversation was never about misogyny really speaks to the lack of social empathy toward this group of people.
I'm saying that they are a subset of a larger group and that focusing on them in particular is reductive. It doesn't matter if they're a majority or minority. The focus on one subset within a larger set of people is reductive.
The discussion I'm trying to have is also very important, as it taps into subjects such as how social pressures affect people, how love and lack of love affect people, and how society devalues people based on arbitrary criteria. Nobody seems to want to have that discussion, though. Everyone seems to want to have a discussion that basically amounts to "Yes, misogyny is bad and misogynists need to be called out," which I agree with. My gripe is that it's an easy discussion to have, yet has usurped the space in which I was hoping to have a more difficult one. |
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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BTW SWIMMING ANIME ANNOUNCED
Don't mind me just laughing hilariously forever. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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On the one hand, I'm sad it's quite a step down from the commercial, animation-wise. If someone hadn't told me KyoAni was behind it, I certainly wouldn't have assumed that was the case. On the other, [expletive] SWIMMING ANIME AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. |
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Draneor
Posts: 355 |
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The orange-haired guy seems kind of adorable already from the PV. I'm very interested to see what KyoAni can do with this.
Open question: why are you ignoring that some of us, like myself, Fencedude, HitokiriShadow, etc, are moe fans? It's entirely possible to like some of the same anime you do, experience the same social forces, and yet disagree with you. Also, it was certain comments in this thread that forced the conversation--not ours and others' reaction to them. |
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RogerSterling
Posts: 69 |
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YOU (spotlight on POONK)- You are what sucks about the Anime community in English forums. Yeah - You. Observe kids as I demonstrate: You come off as this "Open Minded" person who wants everyone to get along & we all need to be fair & equal (or am I wrong?)...YET, You Cheer on "social shaming" for people YOU feel are not-so-nice-people? Sorry sweetie but in the battlefield of ideas - that doesn't make you "correct" Just, Right, or even 'cool'....unless we play by YOUR Rules? SCREW YOUR "Social Shaming"- You are a HATER. You're NO better than the Macho Guys you claim to be better than. You made ZERO attempts to be "diplomatic" in the above comment. Zac for all the jazz I've given him at least is diplomatic (or often trys to be). I am "openly" incendiary and make comments to promote 'colorful debate'- I present my POV and WELCOME dissent - I practically beg for challenging opinions - YOU act like the games already over and we just have to agree with you or be "Shamed" Sorry Babe - America is rapidly growing TIRED of "Political Correctness"- No more 'word games', no more "FREE Rides", No more 'Minced Feelings' - Common Sense people are SICK of this 'Thought Experiment' - cause we're wise. You control the Language then control thought (and by Extension Behavior)...and if that doesn't work- You make "Legislation" to ENFORCE & control Behavior (Gotta love Gov huh sweetie?). Sorry Your Opinion is CRAP! Men will be men & Women will be whatever they want to be (at any given moment) - why do I say that? cause who am I to know the mind of women (right?). Go sling that Hater-aid somewhere else Honey-pie, Go find some sissy Emo boys to pick on & emasculate (takes two to tango, they'll welcome you). Because I "Cheer On" the 'Common Sense' verbal lashing of Politically Correct Fools like yourself - Yes....Yes I do. You cheer on the Shaming of Others....what's next an Inquasition? You truly are a backward individual - You social experiments are at an END Princess. The French Revolution is over & You Lost...AGAIN. YOU are the type "character" I was born Play with (or debate if you wanna be civilized). See ya on the battlefields of Ideas Chica! ******************* And to think I only came back to share one of the COOLEST women in Japan! I stumbled on this & this woman fascinates me! A Host club for Girls! I was so pleased that this woman found a Male Moe Cafe!! Let us bask in the joy of this woman's adventure - She has ZERO Delusions about what she likes & never apologizes for not being a Slave to Social Norms (The Herd) It's called "Rent-a-Boyfriend" (really) www.youtube.com/watch?v=cllO4KcdwLc God Bless Japan! - NO Political Correctness ALLOWED!! in fact it's You might be SHAMED if you're too "Liberal" - Yes!! YES!! (did I sound like Poonk for a sec there?) |
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RogerSterling
Posts: 69 |
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So what....if it brings some "Hotter" chicks into liking Anime fine. You could have the Gayest or oiled up what-ever piece of Beefcake (whatever girls like) known to man in Anime - I do not care. Bring the Ladies in...Hook 'em w/ this & then maybe they stay for 'Highschool of the dead' or maybe "A certain magical index"...if Sex Sells I'd assume women would as easily sold if you market it correctly. I'll tell you a perfect a Perfect example: "The Vampire Diaries" (on TV). EVERYONE is Hot on that show. Seriously, I'd bang every chick on that show (except April) -and the dudes all look like "Ken Dolls" & hair models. If I had Mystiques power of "Shape-shifting" I'd look like one of these dudes. Thats the next stage of the Harem Anime - Multi-Harem. tons of Guys & tons of Girls - everyone watches & everyone screws....except Poonk who is 'socially shaming' others |
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