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deathbringer
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:16 am
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Shale wrote: | And remember, it's just a TV show. |
Where does this argument come from? When did I say anything about it being more then a show? Because it's just a show I'm not allowed to comment on it?
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18211
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:52 am
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deathbringer wrote: | So if I were to translate a series but told you ahead of time that instead of translating it I would just be making it up as I go along that would be alright? Somehow I don't think so. I personally enjoyed the sub. I don't think their sales would have gone nowhere, I think it would have been an average selling show. I'd imagine they lost more viewers then they gained by changing the dub. It's a slippery slope. If this show sells what's to stop ADV from doing this more often? Eventually they may get a show that you like and completely ruin it. |
Sorry, you're dead wrong on the part I put in bold. You have to remember that purists, despite their vocal presence in fan forums, are not a large portion of the overall fan community - and they're a smaller group still if you only consider fans who regularly buy DVDs. It's been proven time and time again by sales figures that a substantial majority of all anime fans favor dubs and aren't much concerned about "artistic integrity" and similar arguments. This can be seen quite clearly in the consistently poor sales figures for sub-only DVD releases compared to ones that also have dubs. I'm sure someone involved in anime DVD sales could do a sales analysis and show that the quality or accuracy of an English dub has almost no correlation to how well it sells, either. The overriding factors for most fans who actually buy DVDs are the popularity and entertainment value of the series. Ghost Stories certainly didn't have the former, and based on postings in these forums you seem to be in a distinct minority on the latter concerning the faithful version.
To put it into another perspective: I get fair number of review copies for doing reviews for ANN. The majority of the time I'm not inspired by the first volume to go out and buy further volumes, even if I do give it a favorable review. That would have been the case with Ghost Stories, too, were it not for what ADV did with the English dub.
And as others have said, ADV has given no indication of this being anything other than a one-shot deal.
TheHTRO's points have been sufficiently addressed by others so I will not get into those.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:34 pm
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I have to wonder if the people complaining about Ghost Stories would, were they living in Japan, rant and rave on the internet about preserving the artistic integrity of Winx Club or Alvin & the Chipmunks had the Japanese recorded a gag dub but also included standard subtitles.
Somehow I doubt it.
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deathbringer
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:10 pm
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Key wrote: | And as others have said, ADV has given no indication of this being anything other than a one-shot deal. |
Except they've already done it in the past with Super Milk Chan. Which is a show where I didn't find either the dub or sub to be funny.
Zac wrote: | I have to wonder if the people complaining about Ghost Stories would, were they living in Japan, rant and rave on the internet about preserving the artistic integrity of Winx Club or Alvin & the Chipmunks had the Japanese recorded a gag dub but also included standard subtitles.
Somehow I doubt it. |
Alvin & the Chipmunks is a classic, so hell yeah. Winx Club has a nice art style but I've never really sat through an episode so I don't know if it's any good. Ghost Stories seemed like a fairly decent show minus the dub to me. I'm against anything where people change the original show just to add infantile humor to it so a few people can get a laugh out of it.
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shirokiryuu
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 714
Location: Northern California (SF Bay Area)
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:41 pm
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Key wrote: | . You have to remember that purists, despite their vocal presence in fan forums, are not a large portion of the overall fan community - and they're a smaller group still if you only consider fans who regularly buy DVDs. |
That is true. It's just on the internet it's easier to find purist thoughts and etc. on anime websites, because they are the only ones who would actually care or even surf the internet for things about anime longer than most. Not many casual fans care about integrity as long as it's entertaining to them.
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Necros Antiquor
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 571
Location: Funny in a car crash sort of way
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:48 pm
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deathbringer wrote: | I'm against anything where people change the original show just to add infantile humor to it so a few people can get a laugh out of it. |
The "few people" that get a laugh out of Ghost Stories' rewritten dub comprise the majority of the show's fanbase. The people who prefer the show uncut are in the extremely small, tiny minority.
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Lyrai
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Potatoes (Idaho)
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:22 am
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I like a good serious story as much as the next person, but every now and then, I could give a flying rat's ass about 'faithful dub" and want a good laugh out of the $20-$30 I spent on the DVD.
I applaud ADV for having the, er, guts, I guess, to do this, despite the whole outcry by the whiny purists about artistic integrity. It's been stated before, but I'll say it again - Ghost Stories was not some work of art. It wasn't the next FLCL, or some Miyazaki film. It was a cheap attempt at some sales, based on ghosts. Nothing more. ADV decided to take a risk and spice it up. They left a sub track on there for people who like dull stories.
Way to go, ADV. You got yourself a faithful buyer for your stuff for having the guts to take a risk like this.
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Defiant7
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 27
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:50 am
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Ghost Stories was a sub-par anime thats was made better because of the english dub. I for one am going to continue to buy the DVD as they come out. My Brother enjoyed this anime because of the english dub and he hates 90% of all anime out there.
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deathbringer
Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:28 am
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Defiant7 wrote: | My Brother enjoyed this anime because of the english dub and he hates 90% of all anime out there. |
That's not exactly the best argument I've ever heard.
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TheHTRO
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 328
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:29 am
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To Key: So by criticizing ADV's actions, suddenly I'm a "purist"? You really are entertaining. While myself am not what you would call a "purist", you do realize that you are insulting actual "purists" with that statement, right?
Anyhow, simply put, I don't know why they licensed it, I don't know how, and I don't know when, but if they didn't think the show was that good, then they nver should have licensed it in the first place; they should have left it for someone else to license. It's not like I hear about a show and then push for it to get licensed; it either gets licensed, or it doesn't, and I respect that.
Also, it's not our place to decide how we think a Japanese anime made in Japan for Japanese viewers can be "improved" upon. Saying that ADV's ENglish language parody of "Gakkou no Kaidan" improves the show is, in my honest, unbiased, non fanboy-oriented opinion, like saying an English dub by 4Kids "improves" on the original version.
I'm not a purist, and I'm not a fanboy. With this in mind interpret the above as you see fit, but I would never say anything just get a response or reaction from anyone. However, if even this isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what else to do.
Sayonara...
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18211
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:12 am
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TheHTRO wrote: | To Key: So by criticizing ADV's actions, suddenly I'm a "purist"? You really are entertaining. While myself am not what you would call a "purist", you do realize that you are insulting actual "purists" with that statement, right? |
I have actually not called you a purist, but your rhetoric in earlier posts very much follows the standard purist line - especially saying that everyone else but those who have your viewpoint are dead wrong. ("There was no excuse or justification for what they did (even if any of you think so).")
Quote: | Also, it's not our place to decide how we think a Japanese anime made in Japan for Japanese viewers can be "improved" upon. |
Why isn't it our place? Just because we aren't the original target audience doesn't mean we can't make a judgment call on whether or not the series is good. And non-Japanese viewers can most certainly make a judgment call on "improving" a title relevant to the standards of their own entertainment expectation. Whether or not this actually results in an improvement or is necessarily a good idea to attempt is certainly debatable.
Quote: | Saying that ADV's ENglish language parody of "Gakkou no Kaidan" improves the show is, in my honest, unbiased, non fanboy-oriented opinion, like saying an English dub by 4Kids "improves" on the original version. |
We'll have to agree to disagree on that, then. (And how can you say that you're not a purist if you're insisting on using the untranslated title in an English-language forum in a case where the title has been translated?)
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:20 pm
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TheHTRO wrote: |
I'm not a purist, and I'm not a fanboy. |
You'd have a hard time convincing anyone on these forums of this.
I don't believe this myself; your posts are always hard-line, fairly self-righteous typical purist stuff. You and deathbringer both go out of your way to argue incessantly with anyone who disagrees with either of you, and both of you tend to take the purist 'the japanese original is an untouchable sacred masterpiece' stance on just about everything.
Y'all are welcome to believe anything you like and enjoy your anime however you see fit, but being a little less sanctimonious and belligerent towards users who don't share your views would be just great.
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Defiant7
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 27
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:46 am
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deathbringer wrote: |
Defiant7 wrote: | My Brother enjoyed this anime because of the english dub and he hates 90% of all anime out there. |
That's not exactly the best argument I've ever heard. |
I guess what I was saying that if you don't like it too bad, other people do and will continue to pay money for stuff like this. So essentially they will continue to do it as along is it is profitable.
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afnj
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 34
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:18 pm
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TheHTRO wrote: |
Anyhow, simply put, I don't know why they licensed it, I don't know how, and I don't know when, but if they didn't think the show was that good, then they nver should have licensed it in the first place; they should have left it for someone else to license. It's not like I hear about a show and then push for it to get licensed; it either gets licensed, or it doesn't, and I respect that.
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Thats an easy answer, Money. Ghost Stories, to be honest, is a lame anime. I'm sure it didn't do that well in Japan, and I'm sure ADV picked up the license real cheap. Since they bought it for less than the adverage price of a shows license they decided to experiment and try to improve the show. The worst thing that could happen is that it dosn't sell very well but givin the low cost of the show they wouldn't need to sell much to break even. Best thing that could happen is it becomes a hit and they make a lot of money with out putting much in.
I doubt that another large company would have picked it up since it was just too much of a "run of the mill" show. A smaller company might have picked it up due to a small budget but it probly would have been poorly produced and dubbed. It's certanly not a land mark anime that could give a up starting company a break.
And also as already stated in this thread I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to this since any "diehard" fan would just watch the subs anyways. If anything the "fanboys/girls" should be thankfull that it's yet another anime to hit our shores, since Ghost Stories fits in nicely with the dozens of other anime that sits under radar and never gets licensed.
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TheHTRO
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 328
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:45 am
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[quote=Key]And how can you say that you're not a purist if you're insisting on using the untranslated title in an English-language forum in a case where the title has been translated?[/quote]
Sorry about that.
To Zac: Okay, so the show isn't exactly a masterpiece. Fine. However, my position on the matter doesn't necessarily make me a purist, and I'm sorry if my position seems to make it sound like that (I mean it; I'm really not a "purist"). To me, someone who is a purist has a sort of "English dubs suck" mentality, and I assure you I am not like that. I re-iterate that I really didn't mean for my posts to sound the way they did. I guess I didn't realize just how subtle it looked. You say I should make my posts "a little less sanctimonious and belligerent" towards others who don't agree with me? Okay, I'll do that.
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